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Post by buildswithbrian on Oct 31, 2018 15:11:52 GMT -5
Hi all, thought I would share this here, I have had more than a few people ask about drawings or plans for this, and since I have an Axiom AR8pro and built my vac table for it, I thought this might be an appropriate place. attached is a DXF file, with the table to scale (all layers are labeled & correspond to a PDF document, also attached) that describes what each layer is for etc. (sort of general overall instructions) I also attached a v-carve .crv file, with the DXF already inported (if you use V-carve) sorry, but I did not generate the toolpaths, you will have to do that yourself with whatever tool bits you use, and feeds & speeds And here is a link to a you-tube video of the build (a new hobby for me, making & sharing you-tube videos, too much work, but a lot of fun) BWB vacuum table.dxf (406.64 KB) BWB vacuum table.crv (568.5 KB) BWB vacuum table instructions.pdf (187.15 KB) |
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csmg
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Post by csmg on Nov 25, 2018 12:03:08 GMT -5
Brian, I am making this today. For those who have not watched this video and you are thinking of a vacuum table, give this a thought. I realize as does Brian, this is not a true vacuum table, but given we have very few affordable options, this is perfect for most applications.
Great video and product Brian.
Michael
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Post by buildswithbrian on Nov 25, 2018 16:01:31 GMT -5
Brian, I am making this today. For those who have not watched this video and you are thinking of a vacuum table, give this a thought. I realize as does Brian, this is not a true vacuum table, but given we have very few affordable options, this is perfect for most applications. Great video and product Brian. Michael Michael, great to hear that, please let us all know how it turns out |
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Post by parkin79 on Nov 29, 2018 11:07:25 GMT -5
i now have a project to work on for the rest of the year. love the design and how it all came together. great job.
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Post by parkin79 on Nov 30, 2018 11:27:27 GMT -5
Brian since you glued the top down, how do you plan on replacing it if the top gets cut up?
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 1, 2018 8:00:57 GMT -5
Brian since you glued the top down, how do you plan on replacing it if the top gets cut up? I plan on just gluing down a new 1/2" layer of MDF on top of the old one and then re-drilling the 1/4" holes using the original file, then fly-cutting to flatten it off. I will just have to do it before the top gets too thin, and the mounting bolts are to close to the top so I don't hit them with the bit as I pocket out the bolt access holes. |
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Post by parkin79 on Dec 8, 2018 15:32:44 GMT -5
Brian thanks for posting this project, it was exactly the vacuum table I was looking for. I just got done with mine this morning.  |
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Post by Gary Campbell on Dec 8, 2018 20:14:00 GMT -5
Nice project, but one question: What are all the holes in the MFD bleeder board for?
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Post by parkin79 on Dec 8, 2018 21:27:06 GMT -5
Nice project, but one question: What are all the holes in the MFD bleeder board for? Garyc they are the hold down whatever you are cutting. No need for clamps or tape. |
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Post by Gary Campbell on Dec 8, 2018 21:48:11 GMT -5
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Post by parkin79 on Dec 8, 2018 23:10:56 GMT -5
Garyc I didn't know you had that much experience in the CNC world. I am just getting in to this and was trying to be helpful when you asked the question.
So to answer your question I didn't know that having fewer holes was better. I used my table today and it worked perfectly for what I do, but I will look into the information you posted. Ty
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Post by Gary Campbell on Dec 8, 2018 23:24:13 GMT -5
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RT
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Post by RT on Dec 9, 2018 3:17:11 GMT -5
Thought about a Vac table too until I seen a HAAS video where they were using painters tape placed on the waste board then on the back of project...they then used Loctite 401 to glue them together, so I gave it a go and WOW this is the way to go guys! I started out taking lights cuts and then went .375 deep and it held! Next I tried using my 1" waste board cutter and it too went flawlessly! I am super excited to see just what all I can do with this. see video below.
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Post by gerry on Dec 9, 2018 3:40:53 GMT -5
Been using this for a few years. It works really well for thin parts, small parts, and when you don't want any marks from tabs.
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RT
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Post by RT on Dec 9, 2018 3:57:39 GMT -5
Using it constantly on any size workpiece! This is a game changer! did you see the aluminum they were machining using the same process?
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 9, 2018 7:12:08 GMT -5
Gary, very cool design work and from some pics I saw, awesome machine. I may be wrong here, but doesn't the bleeder board system need much more power and flow ? are you telling us here that if I didn't drill all the 1/4" holes in the top, and used the light weight MDF (more porous) that a standard big box store shop vac would pull enough flow through to hold down parts or sheets? |
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Post by Gary Campbell on Dec 9, 2018 7:30:23 GMT -5
Brian... Yes, that is what I am saying. That is all I have ever done. I was following (and improving, I think) guys before me that were using Fein vacuums. The 230 volt motors that I used (without the restrictions of the shopvac) offered a bit more vac potential, more CFM and more noise  I've cut thousands of sheets with that or a similar system, mostly 3/4 PF plywood. Usually one pass around 400ipm I wont swear to anything that is purchased from one of the big box stores, but if you watch specs (not marketing hype) you can see what will work better than another. |
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 9, 2018 8:14:36 GMT -5
Gary, I don't believe you actually answered the question.
are you saying the table I have built in my video, powered by a simple shop vac does not need the 1/4" holes??
I realize the vac system you built and posted the link to just uses a bleeder board, it is obviously a much more powerful system.
but come on guy.... that is an entirely different animal than the table I built and show in the video.
lets compare apples to apples here.
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Post by stevem on Dec 9, 2018 10:18:00 GMT -5
Buildswithbrian: Your table is made to work with a shop vac, costs less than $50 functions just fine. All that is necessary is to cover up the holes that are not under the board your cutting with scraps of material. If you burn out the shop vac, you can buy another for less than $40 anywhere.
I am not in production work that requires spending the funds requires to make a table like Gary is suggesting, unless he has a better idea on a top that will work better and still use a shop vac.
Perhaps Gary could share what material to use for the top and where to get it. That would be great.
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 9, 2018 10:54:14 GMT -5
Buildswithbrian: Your table is made to work with a shop vac, costs less than $50 functions just fine. All that is necessary is to cover up the holes that are not under the board your cutting with scraps of material. If you burn out the shop vac, you can buy another for less than $40 anywhere. I am not in production work that requires spending the funds requires to make a table like Gary is suggesting, unless he has a better idea on a top that will work better and still use a shop vac. Perhaps Gary could share what material to use for the top and where to get it. That would be great. Stevem, I totally agree, affordable, easy to build, good for hobby use. I am not sure what Gary is driving at exactly, a guy with his obvious experience would darn well know why the 1/4" holes are in the top, and that my table would need them (like many others you can see built on you-tube) His original post seems somewhat dis-ingenuous to me, and I hope no-one takes his comment about not needing the holes on my table design as realistic. a standard shop vac like I show just doesn't have the power to pull vacuum like his design. I hope no-one misunderstands, I think his design looks great, and I'm sure works awesome. just not appropriate to compare the two. thanks for the support, hope I don't seem defensive  |
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Post by stevem on Dec 9, 2018 13:43:14 GMT -5
I guess you could make some sort of diamond design and have fewer holes to drill and that would work just as well, but with your system you still need to block off some areas so there is hold down suction. Either way your still using a shop vac which doesn't cost any way near a 230v motor and a pump as well.
I am not into heavy production where I need to spend that sort of money. I would only use the table when cutting thin stock. Anything over 1/4" or thicker, I would use clamps or even the panters tape and CA glue.
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Post by Gary Campbell on Dec 9, 2018 14:11:27 GMT -5
Boys, boys, boys....
My questions were in fact NOT disingenuous. I simply asked what all the holes were for. I knew they were not needed for hold down. Maybe an alignment system.
If you notice all the links I referred to were for systems powered with shopvac or whole house vac motors with specs very similar to all but the cheapest of shopvacs. I am not going to say that all MDF is created equal, some is just too full of cheap resin to flow, but for the most part, only those that don't have experience with, or don't understand bleederboard vac systems will put holes in the bleederboard.
OK, YouTube may be full of similar videos, but that is the product of one lost sheep and then hundreds of wannabe famous sheep following him down the wrong path. The reality is, that even when using a shopvac, and assuming that you have MDF that flows, that you will get much stronger hold down when NOT drilling the bleeder board full of holes.
Since the subject of vacuum often comes up in my classes I have heard the "pegboard theory" more times than I could count. I don't care how you make your vac tables, but if you don't understand how the system works without the holes, we will just have to leave it there, you don't understand.
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 9, 2018 14:23:33 GMT -5
Guess we are all just left to wallow in our ignorance,
or perhaps maybe I should try Gary's recommendation, and top the table off with the ultralight MDF?
and see what happens......
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Post by stevem on Dec 9, 2018 15:13:45 GMT -5
Gary: If you want to be helpful to the others on this forum, please give us some ideas and show us how to make a better mouse trap, what material to use and where to get it.
It's apparent you know what you're talking about, but you are not providing any info on how to make it.
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Post by Gary Campbell on Dec 9, 2018 16:48:42 GMT -5
Steve... The Axiom table size makes it very equal to a single zone of most full table vacuum systems. In most every case I posted systems that operate on shopvac type motors. The 5 links that I provided, along with this one: www.shopbotblog.com/?s=vacuum&submit.x=8&submit.y=9&submit=SearchShow virtually every good piece of online info that I know works well, or gives the info so that you can do it. Pay special attention to the "high flow, medium vacuum" and Bleeder board sections of my Facts on Vacuum thread. Most first timers omit the surfacing both sides of the bleederboard, which causes them to fail. The skin must be removed to enable vac flow in all but the most robust ($8k+ pumps) systems. |
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 9, 2018 21:48:02 GMT -5
Ok Gary,
You sound like a politician with all the round about talk,
Why Don’t you put you’re money where your mouth is and make a video
With specific dimensioned plans Showing exactly how to build a table with your bleeder board design for less than $100 dollars
Don’t give me bs about specs on motors, don’t give me bs about all the classes you teach or your theories about what a vacuum table should be.
Show me the money
We the sheep are waiting to be enlightened
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 9:42:40 GMT -5
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Post by stevem on Dec 12, 2018 13:55:54 GMT -5
The super glue and tape idea works quite well. As an alternative, try using double sided tape where you would put the glue! No fuss, no muss and it works really good. Holding power is quite high and easier to remove the part without any glue residue to worry about.
I also see that since buildswithbrian called out Gary there has been no response.
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Post by buildswithbrian on Dec 12, 2018 21:24:30 GMT -5
The super glue and tape idea works quite well. As an alternative, try using double sided tape where you would put the glue! No fuss, no muss and it works really good. Holding power is quite high and easier to remove the part without any glue residue to worry about. I also see that since buildswithbrian called out Gary there has been no response. Perhaps he is busy building my vac table 😆 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 10:34:44 GMT -5
The super glue and tape idea works quite well. As an alternative, try using double sided tape where you would put the glue! No fuss, no muss and it works really good. Holding power is quite high and easier to remove the part without any glue residue to worry about. I also see that since buildswithbrian called out Gary there has been no response. Be nice, Gary's information is not only completely correct, he's provided great resources of information on the subject. While low density board is likely superior to MDF, I know several commercial shops that use 3/4" MDF with no holes, they just throw it on and surface both sides to increase the air flow. When it gets to thin, they replace the board the same way. For ou thosey who want a YouTube reference, you can watch these two, especially the second one where he is correcting his errors and demonstrates exactly what Gary is talking about. |
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