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Post by edward on Dec 24, 2021 9:39:15 GMT -5
Is there a quick way to change the spindle speed other than turning the dial on the computer face? Lot of turning to get any where.
Hope everyone has a good Holiday Season and looking forward to a New Year!!!!!!
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Post by gerry on Dec 24, 2021 13:07:34 GMT -5
No.
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Post by joeblow on Jan 20, 2022 17:42:24 GMT -5
A very obvious, stupid and, if I may say, useless post. What are you? A shill. Just my 2 cents  |
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Post by bentley on Jan 24, 2022 11:27:14 GMT -5
A very obvious, stupid and, if I may say, useless post. What are you? A shill. Just my 2 cents  I can't see why it is a stupid post. I can't help it if I can't understand why Axiom can't implement a variable speed in with the VFD. Maybe you don't really comprehend what I'm trying to say. And I'm not a shill. I speak the truth. Axiom's are good machines but for the price of them the variable speed should be implemented in with the controller. That's why I have my AR6 Basic with the variable speed router as my backup machine. I have a spare router motor as backup with high speed bearings installed in it. Do the math. The router motors are far cheaper and efficient to have on hand as a backup than waiting for a cheap water cooled spindle to be repaired or replaced. It has a variable speed dial which is more conveniently located on the motor head, not below on the electronics box. And if you were to stand beside my 2 machines. You would gravitate towards the ShopSabre. Also I have to add that how many people have purchased the Axiom machines and finding out once they have it all setup and ready to run and only then finding out that you have to control the spindle speed via the dial on the VFD which is on the electronics cabinet. Its just a cop out on Axion to implement it. My updated 2 cents worth. |
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pedro
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Post by pedro on Mar 8, 2022 15:25:45 GMT -5
A very obvious, stupid and, if I may say, useless post. What are you? A shill. Just my 2 cents I can't see why it is a stupid post. I can't help it if I can't understand why Axiom can't implement a variable speed in with the VFD. Maybe you don't really comprehend what I'm trying to say. And I'm not a shill. I speak the truth. Axiom's are good machines but for the price of them the variable speed should be implemented in with the controller. That's why I have my AR6 Basic with the variable speed router as my backup machine. I have a spare router motor as backup with high speed bearings installed in it. Do the math. The router motors are far cheaper and efficient to have on hand as a backup than waiting for a cheap water cooled spindle to be repaired or replaced. It has a variable speed dial which is more conveniently located on the motor head, not below on the electronics box. And if you were to stand beside my 2 machines. You would gravitate towards the ShopSabre. Also I have to add that how many people have purchased the Axiom machines and finding out once they have it all setup and ready to run and only then finding out that you have to control the spindle speed via the dial on the VFD which is on the electronics cabinet. Its just a cop out on Axion to implement it. My updated 2 cents worth. I have to agree here. For me it is a poor design. First I though you could control speed via software programming, put it in VCarve and then cutting different parts with different speeds. Then, I found out it can't be done, purchased it anyway. It is a great machine, but the speed control sucks. You have to go down to look the dial (hard to see from the top), and then turn the dial which behaves completely erratic, sometimes the numbers change, sometimes not...until you get close to the speed. I would hope they change that. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 8, 2022 18:34:11 GMT -5
I can not help myself but here goes. Costing a product is complex and a balance between what to add to a machine and how much it costs. Why do you think buying anything is so difficult when there so many options? The manufacturer of anything has to balance production costs, support costs and market price in order to sell. Naive is what shouts out loudest here. Sell your machines and buy what you want or be happy with your choice and stop blaming others and bleating. Blah, Blah Blah.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 9, 2022 4:17:00 GMT -5
I can not help myself but here goes. Costing a product is complex and a balance between what to add to a machine and how much it costs. Why do you think buying anything is so difficult when there so many options? The manufacturer of anything has to balance production costs, support costs and market price in order to sell. Naive is what shouts out loudest here. Sell your machines and buy what you want or be happy with your choice and stop blaming others and bleating. Blah, Blah Blah. As a manufacturer of custom products, myself, I 100% agree with this. Choices have to be made to balance value to the customer with costs to the manufacturer (and, by proxy, costs to said customer). Pretty much all of our electronics come from overseas - mostly China. Not only is there an additional 25% tariff on most goods from China (that the Trump administration put into place), but there are also loads of anti-dumping duties, customs fees, freight fees, etc. that all have to be paid - most of which have never been higher in recorded human history than they are right now (due to the pandemic and the political climate). I can't speak for Axiom, but it was likely a decision between adding another $1-2k per unit to the overall price, or settling for something that's not optimal, but still allows the machine to fully function while still hitting their goal price-point - albeit with slightly more manual work.
Regarding a potential solution to OP's issue, it might be possible to design a small, light-duty bit for a cordless drill that you could use to spin the dial for you.
I know, it seems like overkill and has loads of issues (like potentially breaking off your control knob), but you - like the manufacturer - have to decide where the right balance is for yourself.
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pedro
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Post by pedro on Mar 9, 2022 10:30:20 GMT -5
I can not help myself but here goes. Costing a product is complex and a balance between what to add to a machine and how much it costs. Why do you think buying anything is so difficult when there so many options? The manufacturer of anything has to balance production costs, support costs and market price in order to sell. Naive is what shouts out loudest here. Sell your machines and buy what you want or be happy with your choice and stop blaming others and bleating. Blah, Blah Blah. Not sure who is blaming or bleating, maybe I got you wrong. But I see no issue in having an objective assessment of ones tools. I know it does not come with a vacuum bed or ATF for instance, nor does it take (in my case) an entire 4x8 sheet. I did not pay for that. I selected Axiom based reviews I read and research I did. Would I have not bought it if I knew the speed knob is inconsistent? I do not know. What I know is that it is not such a big deal to sell it, the overall benefits outweigh the speed control. But from there just selecting btw selling or "being happy" (as it would be a switch I turn on), is kind of nonsense. The design is just poor, leave emotions out of it. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 9, 2022 11:08:05 GMT -5
Pedro, I am happy to help you off the ledge of Perfectionism to achieve Excellence, but I won't stay on the ledge with you to discuss it.
Enjoy your speed switch and hope it doesn't ruin your enjoyment of an incredible machine.
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Post by bentley on Mar 13, 2022 20:00:15 GMT -5
Sorry all you guys think that having the spindle speed controlled via VCarve and the Axiom being able to do so automatically is a waste. This is THE REASON I bought my ShopSabre 23 with the spindle. They are able to control the spindle speed and cutting speed automatically. I was going to buy the Elite AR8 and canceled it. The ShopSabre is made in the states and is an overall hands down a way better machine than the Axiom. I know because I have an Axiom only as a backup machine. Axiom can do it but they don’t want to.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 13, 2022 20:36:19 GMT -5
Sorry all you guys think that having the spindle speed controlled via VCarve and the Axiom being able to do so automatically is a waste. This is THE REASON I bought my ShopSabre 23 with the spindle. They are able to control the spindle speed and cutting speed automatically. I was going to buy the Elite AR8 and canceled it. The ShopSabre is made in the states and is an overall hands down a way better machine than the Axiom. I know because I have an Axiom only as a backup machine. Axiom can do it but they don’t want to.
It's not a waste at all; I have an Avid CNC Pro60120 as well as my Axiom Pro AR8. The Avid machine controls the spindle speed via the software and it's great. However, I also paid 3x the cost of the Axiom machine for the Avid machine.
The ShopSabre you purchased was probably the same - around 2-3x the cost of the Axiom machine you have. That cost savings has to be accounted for somewhere and the VFD controller is likely one of those areas.
It's not ideal to have to adjust the spindle speed manually, but there's a reason you're paying 35% of what you'd pay for a more robust machine.
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Post by bentley on Mar 14, 2022 19:22:00 GMT -5
Boy you people don’t do your homework. The ShopSabre costed me less money than the AR8 Elite would have. That’s including shipping to Canada, and also paying our HST tax and also the difference in the dollar. It’s way better built also. So please guys just reach out to Axiom and have them implement the speed control via software rather than a dial on your VFD control box hidden out of the way. They can do it because other companies like CWI in Canada who distribute their own brand of Chinese junk use the NK 105 handheld controller and it controls the speed via the USB stick just like Axiom could. I know this for a fact also because I sold that machine to buy the ShopSabre.
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Post by mrnewman on Mar 14, 2022 22:50:34 GMT -5
Boy you people don’t do your homework. The ShopSabre costed me less money than the AR8 Elite would have. That’s including shipping to Canada, and also paying our HST tax and also the difference in the dollar. It’s way better built also. So please guys just reach out to Axiom and have them implement the speed control via software rather than a dial on your VFD control box hidden out of the way. They can do it because other companies like CWI in Canada who distribute their own brand of Chinese junk use the NK 105 handheld controller and it controls the speed via the USB stick just like Axiom could. I know this for a fact also because I sold that machine to buy the ShopSabre. So from my perspective in just this thread you have basically called Axiom stupid for choosing to set a specific price point/feature spec that most of us understood and chose to buy. Then you tried to make and argue a point about software controlled rpm feature being considered a waste by this same group when in fact nobody said that nor probably thinks it rather it is a simple price/value decision. Finally you come back again and call all of us stupid for not "doing our homework" and buying "Chinese junk" I for one did all my homework and got quotes from all the players including ShopSabre, Camaster, etc and made an informed decision to buy my AR8 based on the features I felt I needed vs wanted against the price for those items with Axiom and the competition. What most are looking for in these forums are a group of people that are learning how to operate and get the most out of the machines that they bought in a helpful tone. I hope as this forum continues to grow it will be populated by a majority of people that are looking for the same thing. |
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Post by bentley on Mar 15, 2022 9:42:07 GMT -5
Gee what all started out as a simple question if you can control the spindle speed via software on the Axiom has turned into a me saying everyone is stupid. I didn't say that. All I'm trying to get out there is Axiom can control the speed via software but doesn't either want to spend the money to do so or just figures why bother. That is why my backup machine is the AR6 Basic with the Bosch router setup. I control the speed with the dial on the motor and it does as good of job as the water cooled spindle on the Axiom Pro series. And was a few thousand cheaper at the time when it was still available versus the Pro series. I've run that machine for literally hrs at a time with the router since I changed out the bearings to good high speed bearings. I've also seen on this forum that the speed control on the VFD is very erratic. I'm also sticking up for the MADE IN AMERICA. You guys in the states have so many good made in America machines and so many more choices.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 15, 2022 10:56:43 GMT -5
Boy you people don’t do your homework. The ShopSabre costed me less money than the AR8 Elite would have. That’s including shipping to Canada, and also paying our HST tax and also the difference in the dollar. It’s way better built also. So please guys just reach out to Axiom and have them implement the speed control via software rather than a dial on your VFD control box hidden out of the way. They can do it because other companies like CWI in Canada who distribute their own brand of Chinese junk use the NK 105 handheld controller and it controls the speed via the USB stick just like Axiom could. I know this for a fact also because I sold that machine to buy the ShopSabre. The ShopSabre is not the same size as the AR8 platform and the ShopSabre 23 is more in line with the Pro series (which is the same price) - and falls in between the the AR8 and AR6 in working area. The only thing that it seems to beat is the gantry travel speed - which is largely capped by your cuts (my Avid machine has a max travel speed of 1000 IPM, but rarely hits more than 200 IPM unless it's a long, straight path).
Not only does the ShopSabre 23 have 1-2.5" (depending on Axiom Pro vs. Elite) less z-axis travel, but it also has 8" less y-axis capacity. Those full 48" tables allow me to break a 4'x8' sheet into 4 identical pieces, all of which can then be fully milled on the Axiom machine without the use of registration pins, etc.
How is your argument that Axiom should offer automatic spindle control any different than my argument that ShopSabre should provide a full 48" working area? Why not? It's just slightly longer ball-screws, rails, and framing right? Other companies do it. Even "Chinese junk" machines do it.
I'm happy you were able to find a machine that better fit your needs, but that doesn't mean it's superior to the Axiom machines. We bought the machine we needed for what was important to us, just like you did - but we're not attacking ShopSabre - they look like they make great machines, too.
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Post by bentley on Mar 15, 2022 13:41:55 GMT -5
I didn't realize you had the AR16 Elite. As far as build quality of my ShopSabre compared to my Axiom AR6 Basic its like night and day. Everything is of higher quality and way sturdier. I have never missed having a higher Z axis height. The wider bed on the X axis is more useful than a longer bed. Like your Avid, I would much rather have my speed set via software than guessing on a dial you can't even see. One other point I may add. I do think a lot of people on here didn't realize until they got their machines that they were unable to control the spindle speed via software. That is the main reason I went with the ShopSabre. Like mentioned earlier, I cancelled the AR8 Elite because of this. I thought since it had the VFD and dial like on the machine I sold which could control the speed via software it would to, considering the price.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 15, 2022 13:51:44 GMT -5
I didn't realize you had the AR16 Elite. As far as build quality of my ShopSabre compared to my Axiom AR6 Basic its like night and day. Everything is of higher quality and way sturdier. I have never missed having a higher Z axis height. The wider bed on the X axis is more useful than a longer bed. Like your Avid, I would much rather have my speed set via software than guessing on a dial you can't even see. One other point I may add. I do think a lot of people on here didn't realize until they got their machines that they were unable to control the spindle speed via software. That is the main reason I went with the ShopSabre. Like mentioned earlier, I cancelled the AR8 Elite because of this. I thought since it had the VFD and dial like on the machine I sold which could control the speed via software it would to, considering the price. I can agree with a lot of that. One thing I may mention here, I have an older Axiom machine and - while I do have to set the spindle speed manually - it's very effortless to do so. The knob works well and 1-2 turns can take it anywhere from 0-24,000 RPMs. Maybe my machine had a different (better) VFD, or maybe I just got lucky with the construction of the unit, but my machine is very solid, very heavy, and pretty effortless to use. So, that's where I'm coming from when I defend my machine - perhaps the more recent versions of the machines are losing quality? |
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Post by gerry on Mar 15, 2022 14:56:38 GMT -5
If we're really lucky, and don't respond to this TROLL, he'll go away. Far away.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 15, 2022 15:22:07 GMT -5
If we're really lucky, and don't respond to this TROLL, he'll go away. Far away. Perhaps, but then I'd have nothing to do between cuts.  |
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zaxis4
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Post by zaxis4 on Mar 15, 2022 15:54:33 GMT -5
This is getting entertaining!!! To each his own it seems. All I need to do is take a look at a photo of each machine side by side and the choice is obvious. I have never heard of a shopsabre before i saw this post. So I took a look on line. They sort of look like a prototype that has not reached the manufacturing stage yet. The exposed cable chains, flimsy gantry and things hanging off of it everywhere, would not be for me. I will take my Axiom pro5 any day. I love my Axiom. Cast iron, sturdy, solid gantry. Beautiful fit and finish. Fits in my shop like a glove. Not to mention good support. Speed control would be the least of my concerns. Enjoy your Shopsabre. I think most Axiom owners would agree that they made a wise choice.
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Post by bentley on Mar 15, 2022 19:05:15 GMT -5
Hahaha. Sure is. My Axiom looks like a scared little kid looking up at my ShopSbre. If I’m paying $7,000 plus for a machine, especially an offshore brand. Yes the Axiom is very flimsy compared to the ShopSabre. Like Forrest Gump said, you can’t fix stupid. And that’s all I’m gonna say about that.
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Post by joeblow on Mar 15, 2022 19:20:18 GMT -5
I have to ask….on a software driven spindle, how do you adjust speed on the fly? If it requires going back into my design file and resetting my spindle speed, saving that new file and then running the cut again, count me out! Personally, I have become quite competent setting spindle speed on the fly with various materials, cutters, DOC, etc by judging sound and chips.
My VFD works flawlessly and sure seems awfully simple when I reach over to adjust a couple hundred rpm on the fly.
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Post by bentley on Mar 15, 2022 20:15:08 GMT -5
There is a slider on the computer screen. Or in my case I also have a remote wireless handheld pendant. On either the pendant or computer screen it’s extremely easy to see compared to the dial on your VFD which you can’t unless you go on your hands and knees. You guys on here have to realize I’m not bashing your machines. It’s the fact that Axiom can do this with software. You’d still be able to override everything with your handheld pendant.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 15, 2022 21:29:49 GMT -5
I have to ask….on a software driven spindle, how do you adjust speed on the fly? If it requires going back into my design file and resetting my spindle speed, saving that new file and then running the cut again, count me out! Personally, I have become quite competent setting spindle speed on the fly with various materials, cutters, DOC, etc by judging sound and chips. My VFD works flawlessly and sure seems awfully simple when I reach over to adjust a couple hundred rpm on the fly. It sounds like you have the same VFD I do; I like that one. The Avid machine requires a devoted Windows computer to run it. The software has adjustments for feed rate, rapid rate, and spindle speed while you're cutting - much like what Bently described. I often start conservatively and then adjust both the spindle speed and feed rate until I'm happy. Like you, you start to just get the hang of what you're looking for based on the sounds of the cuts and the size of the chips.
You can do most of that on the Axiom machine, too - with the exception of not being able to raise the feed rate. You can adjust it anywhere between 0% to 100% of what you programmed in, but you can't adjust it faster. The Avid machine will let me go until it happily starts skipping steps from pushing the machine too fast haha. |
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Post by Gary Campbell on Mar 16, 2022 7:47:04 GMT -5
I have to ask….on a software driven spindle, how do you adjust speed on the fly? If it requires going back into my design file and resetting my spindle speed, saving that new file and then running the cut again, count me out! Personally, I have become quite competent setting spindle speed on the fly with various materials, cutters, DOC, etc by judging sound and chips. My VFD works flawlessly and sure seems awfully simple when I reach over to adjust a couple hundred rpm on the fly. The ability to adjust spindle speed and feedrate, either static or "on the fly" is a product of the controller. The RichAuto controllers may or may not have that ability depending on model. I would assume the lesser cost models may not, but I would guess that some of the higher end models will. I can only venture a guess, as manuals and specs of them seem to be "unobtanium" on the web. In any case, if the terminals are available on the pendants IO board, just add the wires. PC based controllers have tons of extra features when compared to the hand held pendant type. The most basic of which is speed and feed control via onscreen sliders, via keystrokes or via wired or wireless MPG pendants. The ability to store your preferred RPM and feedrate for a given bit in your tool database to achieve proper chipload for your machine and material is pretty important. |
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pedro
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Post by pedro on Mar 16, 2022 13:37:29 GMT -5
Beware of brand-fanaticism. I love my Axiom. Although I recognize it's limitations. The speed control is VERY annoying, that is the whole point here. Cost/price driven, technical constraints, whatever...that is irrelevant to the point that the speed control sucks. Still love the machine.
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dadealeus
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Post by dadealeus on Mar 16, 2022 15:48:40 GMT -5
Beware of brand-fanaticism. I love my Axiom. Although I recognize it's limitations. The speed control is VERY annoying, that is the whole point here. Cost/price driven, technical constraints, whatever...that is irrelevant to the point that the speed control sucks. Still love the machine.
I'm certainly no fanatic when it comes to Axiom; it has its flaws - like all the machines do - but it's a well built machine. Perhaps you guys have a different VFD, but mine is effortless to use:
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Post by joeblow on Mar 17, 2022 3:57:05 GMT -5
I have to ask….on a software driven spindle, how do you adjust speed on the fly? If it requires going back into my design file and resetting my spindle speed, saving that new file and then running the cut again, count me out! Personally, I have become quite competent setting spindle speed on the fly with various materials, cutters, DOC, etc by judging sound and chips. My VFD works flawlessly and sure seems awfully simple when I reach over to adjust a couple hundred rpm on the fly. The ability to adjust spindle speed and feedrate, either static or "on the fly" is a product of the controller. The RichAuto controllers may or may not have that ability depending on model. I would assume the lesser cost models may not, but I would guess that some of the higher end models will. I can only venture a guess, as manuals and specs of them seem to be "unobtanium" on the web. In any case, if the terminals are available on the pendants IO board, just add the wires. PC based controllers have tons of extra features when compared to the hand held pendant type. The most basic of which is speed and feed control via onscreen sliders, via keystrokes or via wired or wireless MPG pendants. The ability to store your preferred RPM and feedrate for a given bit in your tool database to achieve proper chipload for your machine and material is pretty important. Thanks for the simple explanation of the differences. I suppose I have been in the category of “ hard to miss what you don't know exists”. When the time comes to upgrade, I will certainly be looking at various options available. Frankly, I hope Axiom has what I will be looking for when I do decide to upgrade. Brand fanaticism? Nope. Brand loyalty? Very much so when I find a brand that strives hard to satisfy customers and provide a quality product at a reasonable price point. I'm all in |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 17, 2022 8:50:41 GMT -5
When Social Media behaviors spill over into Technical Forums it becomes obvious where professional and experienced members keep the calm. A great example why this forum works and doesn't get hung up on emotionally triggered responses.
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pedro
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Post by pedro on Mar 17, 2022 15:20:09 GMT -5
Beware of brand-fanaticism. I love my Axiom. Although I recognize it's limitations. The speed control is VERY annoying, that is the whole point here. Cost/price driven, technical constraints, whatever...that is irrelevant to the point that the speed control sucks. Still love the machine.
I'm certainly no fanatic when it comes to Axiom; it has its flaws - like all the machines do - but it's a well built machine. Perhaps you guys have a different VFD, but mine is effortless to use:
Thanks, it is certainly a different controller. The Siemens one you can turn it about 3 to 4 times and the numbers do not move at all. I filmed it as well just not able to post it from my work computer. On top of that, the display is more difficult to read than yours, to make a good read I have to go down on my knees. If it worked like yours, it would be great. Happens sometimes I start the cut and then realize I need to change the speed, so that adds a panic component and the knob just does not react as one expect. |
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