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Post by joeblow on Aug 17, 2018 7:27:48 GMT -5
Having only been using the 4th axis on my AR6Pro for the past few months to mill components for my business, I decided it was time to make my wife something. This is the first “flat” job I have attempted. An arch top picture frame in walnut. I started with 5/4 walnut, glued 2 together for thickness, joined and biscuited 2 for the head, joinery glued and biscuited as well. Pinned the assembly to 1/2” plywood and pinned that to the spoilboard.  I like the chips....  Here it is complete.....I have not removed the outer and inner “waste areas” left by the profile cutouts.  All was going so well until the flower toolpath.....  The above pic shows multiple problems: The flowers cut so deep. 0.3 inch is not the same as 0.3mm The inner and outer profile cutouts left a flat spot. I will try cutting on the vector next time. The 2 rail sweep is buggered up at this corner which is marked. I beleve that can be corrected by changing the starting point of the toolpath. The text is awful. A lot learned here though.... My plywood backer hold down worked awesome. Very happy with the initial layup prior to cutting. I think the speeds and feeds were good. Super impressed that little .0312BN could handle a 0.3” cut in the walnut without issues. Lastly, test cut everything on a piece of scrap plywood prior to the real thing. A shame...Yes, but no shame here. Only learning. |
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Post by savannahdan on Aug 17, 2018 10:33:48 GMT -5
I'll comment about the faults in pieces that I make in the workshop and my wife tells me that I'm my own worst critic. She views faults as character. She is right most times but there are times I wish I had burned the thing before letting her see it. You've made a beautiful piece with character. Thank you fo sharing.
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Post by aluomala on Aug 17, 2018 17:10:12 GMT -5
I like it! I think I would have done it out of one solid piece (to avoid all the cutting, mitering, jointing, etc), but it definitely makes it look like a true fine woodworking project, rather than a straight up CNC job.
Great first effort! I'm jealous, as my first project was considerably more straigtforward and simplistic.
Allan
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grg
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Post by grg on Aug 18, 2018 10:32:26 GMT -5
I like it! I think I would have done it out of one solid piece (to avoid all the cutting, mitering, jointing, etc), but it definitely makes it look like a true fine woodworking project, rather than a straight up CNC job. Great first effort! I'm jealous, as my first project was considerably more straigtforward and simplistic. Allan Have ya priced a walnut board that wide? ;-) |
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Post by joeblow on Aug 18, 2018 18:54:59 GMT -5
I'll comment about the faults in pieces that I make in the workshop and my wife tells me that I'm my own worst critic. She views faults as character. She is right most times but there are times I wish I had burned the thing before letting her see it. You've made a beautiful piece with character. Thank you fo sharing. Thanks Dan. My wife always says the exact same thing too. She of course loves the frame even though I told her nothing leaves my hands until I'm happy with it. She is used to that with me. Usually my mistakes end up as kindling for the woodstove but might keep this one around in the shop for a bit.
GRG...yep that would be one heck of an expensive slab of walnut and not very stable either. I'm very fortunate to use quite a bit of rough cut hardwoods throughout the year and being so close to the Amish mills in my area makes for very good prices  Besides, I always enjoy joinery and lay-up.
Anyways, round 2 is already under the clamps gluing up for my 2nd attempt. In the meantime, I spent quite a bit of time today reading up on 2 rail sweeps and why the corners were buggered. Boy did that give me a headache but I learned about cross sections and saw just how far the nodes were off at the corners and why it was buggered. Now that I fixed that, the preview is so much sharper.
Now if I can just remember that 0.3" does not equal 0.3mm I'll be ok.
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Post by aluomala on Aug 18, 2018 22:14:11 GMT -5
I like it! I think I would have done it out of one solid piece (to avoid all the cutting, mitering, jointing, etc), but it definitely makes it look like a true fine woodworking project, rather than a straight up CNC job. Great first effort! I'm jealous, as my first project was considerably more straigtforward and simplistic. Allan Have ya priced a walnut board that wide? ;-) Price is sometimes secondary to time spent on something, right?!? I have access to fairly wide walnut at reasonable prices, so if I edge-glued a few pieces to make a wide piece (let's say 4-6' ft lengths), I'd have a whole bunch of wide pieces to use later. I can deal with jointing pieces to do up some wider pieces, but not to make perfect 45 degree corners (or biscuit joints). I try to focus on my strengths, and avoid work that is more challenging than I currently have the skills or equipment (beside my $8K CNC machine, my shop tools are pretty rudimentary: a Craftsman worksite table saw, a cheap 10" sliding miter saw, a cheap jointer, etc. I would rather let the CNC do the heavy lifting, even if I have to spend a few more bucks on wood  Having said that, I realize I am limiting my potential by trying to use the CNC machine to do everything, and many of my dream projects involve at least a bit of fine woodworking skills (and the required machines), so hopefully the money I make from my CNC projects will help me realize those (expensive) dreams. PS Due to my limited tools, I did come up with a fairly good way to make straight edges on longish (up to 50" lengths) pieces with my not-so-accurate table saw: I bought a low profile (like this) clamp/guide, clamp it to the edge of the wood that isn't going to be used so that it just overhangs the piece and will make contact with the fence, and then run it through my table saw (I have a Freud glue line ripping blade) and if I'm slow and steady enough, I end up with perfect edges for gluing up my panels. I have done this with up to 2" stock in lengths up to 50" (the limit of the clamps that I have seen so far) and it has saved me (so far) from having to think about buying a full on cast iron jointer (my little cheap one is only good for small pieces). Sometimes when you don't have the right tools, you have to come up with unconventional solutions (I can't take complete credit, since the basic idea (using a straight board nailed/screwed to your piece) was found on YouTube and I just modified it when I happened to see one of those clamps in my tool rack.
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Post by aluomala on Aug 18, 2018 22:37:35 GMT -5
Now if I can just remember that 0.3" does not equal 0.3mm I'll be ok.
It's funny because I'm of the era of Canadians that grew up with Imperial (inches, pounds (for weight), MPH, etc) and then underwent enforced indoctrination in school to learn metric, so I have learned both systems, but neither one particularly well. I still think of my height, weight, etc in Imperial, but speeds, distances etc in metric. Being in the army for 20 years definitely made things easier in some ways (distances are always in meters, for example) and harder in others: some of our equipment is European (German tanks, for example), or British (not so much any more) and imperial or, if it's newer, metric, and others are US made, and depending on what it is, can be in imperial, metric, or both. Anyway, I do find it challenging myself (to use the Axiom) because I do use imperial for project layouts because if I say "2 feet" I can visualize that very easily, but I have to do quite a bit of mental gymnastics if I have to visualize 60 cms (the rough equivalent of 2'). It gets even worse because I can easily envision 1mm (about the thickness of a dime) but measurements like 3/32" are beyond my comprehesion to visualize, and if I realize I need to go deeper on a finishing pass, for example, .5mm is easy enough to imagine being removed, but the imperial (fractional) distance doesn't even compute. Even something like .05" was painful to watch being carved, since sometimes it is way too small, and other times, it's way too much (using a small bit, or very thin stock). Having said all that, I do wish that the RichAuto B18 controller had the option of using Imperial measurements (even if it were in decimal) for inputting. Having to break out a ruler, or my phone (for it's calculator) is kind of a pain. If I could wake up tomorrow and everything in the world was metric, and all imperial measurements were banished, I would be happy, since the metric system is so much easier to deal with. I know that is heresy to my American friends, but it's the truth.
Allan
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Post by joeblow on Aug 19, 2018 8:47:53 GMT -5
I appreciate your comments Aluomala. Actually that method works very well for straightening up edges. I have an assortment of aluminum flat bar stock (4',6',8') that I use to ride along the fence when straightening 3/4" boards. Thicker boards I go to the joiner.
I find this whole cnc experience to be both exciting and frustrating. Normally I would have made this frame with traditional machinery in my shop and would have had no problem except for the text. The flowers I would have done intarsia style out of different species and a lot of time on the scroll saw. Old fashioned 3D. It's a strange thing for me to allow the cnc to do what I know I can do, having only purchased the AR6 with 4th axis to get me off the lathe. I personally look very forward to achieving a skill level with the cnc that I have with my other tools.
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grg
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Post by grg on Aug 20, 2018 8:00:04 GMT -5
Now if I can just remember that 0.3" does not equal 0.3mm I'll be ok.
It's funny because I'm of the era of Canadians that grew up with Imperial (inches, pounds (for weight), MPH, etc) and then underwent enforced indoctrination in school to learn metric, so I have learned both systems, but neither one particularly well. I still think of my height, weight, etc in Imperial, but speeds, distances etc in metric. Being in the army for 20 years definitely made things easier in some ways (distances are always in meters, for example) and harder in others: some of our equipment is European (German tanks, for example), or British (not so much any more) and imperial or, if it's newer, metric, and others are US made, and depending on what it is, can be in imperial, metric, or both. Anyway, I do find it challenging myself (to use the Axiom) because I do use imperial for project layouts because if I say "2 feet" I can visualize that very easily, but I have to do quite a bit of mental gymnastics if I have to visualize 60 cms (the rough equivalent of 2'). It gets even worse because I can easily envision 1mm (about the thickness of a dime) but measurements like 3/32" are beyond my comprehesion to visualize, and if I realize I need to go deeper on a finishing pass, for example, .5mm is easy enough to imagine being removed, but the imperial (fractional) distance doesn't even compute. Even something like .05" was painful to watch being carved, since sometimes it is way too small, and other times, it's way too much (using a small bit, or very thin stock). Having said all that, I do wish that the RichAuto B18 controller had the option of using Imperial measurements (even if it were in decimal) for inputting. Having to break out a ruler, or my phone (for it's calculator) is kind of a pain. If I could wake up tomorrow and everything in the world was metric, and all imperial measurements were banished, I would be happy, since the metric system is so much easier to deal with. I know that is heresy to my American friends, but it's the truth.
Allan
I was posting that mostly in jest ;-) - in addition to being a little more efficient on material use, the way he has that glued up aligns the grain better for strength of the frame. I just carved up 54lbs of walnut to make a 14lb stool so I'm a little sensitive ;-). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 9:32:34 GMT -5
I just carved up 54lbs of walnut to make a 14lb stool so I'm a little sensitive ;-). Add 40 pounds of epoxy to those walnut chips and you'll have 80 pounds of really nice (and very expensive) composite to work with again. |
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Post by aluomala on Aug 24, 2018 22:04:37 GMT -5
I just carved up 54lbs of walnut to make a 14lb stool so I'm a little sensitive ;-). Add 40 pounds of epoxy to those walnut chips and you'll have 80 pounds of really nice (and very expensive) composite to work with again. I laughed a little reading this, because I have taken to collecting the fine sawdust that collects in the collet/dust shoe areas in little plastic containers after a few projects using the same wood type, in case I need it to mix with glue or epoxy to fill in gaps or fix mistakes. In the past, I had to actually create sawdust using the required wood for this purpose (I had a gnarly knot/rot defect in one piece that needed to be filled in, in a hurry, so I was scrambling to come up with the right mixture). I should start selling it. Say it has magical powers, or something. "I put in 20 pounds of wood, and 25 pounds of sawdust came out! Magic!"
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Post by joeblow on Aug 25, 2018 6:14:15 GMT -5
Add 40 pounds of epoxy to those walnut chips and you'll have 80 pounds of really nice (and very expensive) composite to work with again. I laughed a little reading this, because I have taken to collecting the fine sawdust that collects in the collet/dust shoe areas in little plastic containers after a few projects using the same wood type, in case I need it to mix with glue or epoxy to fill in gaps or fix mistakes. In the past, I had to actually create sawdust using the required wood for this purpose (I had a gnarly knot/rot defect in one piece that needed to be filled in, in a hurry, so I was scrambling to come up with the right mixture). I should start selling it. Say it has magical powers, or something. "I put in 20 pounds of wood, and 25 pounds of sawdust came out! Magic!"
The Magic Miter Eraser! LOL.. I always ran the stain grade hardwood trim jobs cuz my field joinery was flawless. Little did they know that very high up in my "Tips & Tricks for Field Joinery" was to rub out every joint with fine powder. Used to put shavings in a coffee grinder to make powder and carry around various film containers with different
"magic dust". Works like a champ as long as the joints were already fairly tight.
Also done quite a few small inlays with different powders and the CA method. That works awesome too.
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Post by joeblow on Sept 6, 2018 14:38:28 GMT -5
v1.2 Update2nd time around came out much nicer....    ......and most importantly my wife is happy Learned alot on this little project.
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Post by savannahdan on Sept 6, 2018 17:25:57 GMT -5
very, very nice.
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Post by aluomala on Sept 6, 2018 21:24:26 GMT -5
Very nice. I like the raised flowers, and how they are on top of the joints. And if the wife is happy, "happy wife, happy life" (and she will forgive the expensive wood/CNC bit purchases in the future!!)
Allan
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Post by joeblow on Sept 8, 2018 4:28:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliments |
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zaxis4
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Post by zaxis4 on Sept 8, 2018 9:51:10 GMT -5
Well done on the design. I really like it. What was the run time to raise the artwork. It is very effective.
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grg
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Post by grg on Sept 8, 2018 13:25:10 GMT -5
very nice!
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Post by joeblow on Sept 10, 2018 5:14:32 GMT -5
Well done on the design. I really like it. What was the run time to raise the artwork. It is very effective. Hi Zaxis....Thanks for compliment. Total run time for the 3d roughing and finishing was about 8 hours. I used a .125BN at 100ipm with a 5% stepover for the finishing toolpath. To finish the walnut I applied 5 coats of an off the shelf oil/varnish followed by 3 thinned coats (1 1/2# cut) of amber shellac. I would have really liked to fill the grain with a saw dust slurry mix but was concerned about the text getting filled and how that would work with the raised artwork as well. I will need to figure that out in the future. In about a week or two I will finish the finish after full cure. |
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Besides, I always enjoy joinery and lay-up.
