Vectric Laser Module

[Axiom Tool Group]

We have been getting a lot of questions lately regarding the new Laser module by Vectric..

This module was created to allow users easy control of a laser for grey scale shading...adding more photo engraving capability to the software.

*Unfortunately, the Axiom laser or more importantly the controls used do not allow for this type of power modulation...making this software add on useless for the time being.

That said, we are working on a solution which we are hopeful about but may have to rely on some assistance from the Laser and Control manufacturers to get this new feature to work.
In the time being, we wanted to offer this information to help ease phone calls and hopefully save customers from spending money unnecessarily until we know more.

[den]

Any update on this??

[Axiom Tool Group]

We have made some little headway in how to get the code to work...but are now having to deal trying to manipulate the control to accomplish the laser power modulation without interfering with spindle operation.

We hope to have a working prototype to test soon.

[Compton]

I'm looking to purchase the AR16 and I plan on getting the laser module with it. I plan on doing pictures with the laser module. Will it not work for that application right now and if so when you get a solution will it be a free software update or will it be another laser module purchase?

[den]

Any updates?

[Compton]

@axiom Tool Group

[Axiom Tool Group]

Sorry guys, updates on this will take some time as the control system is being explored to determine what options we have...then testing will need to be done.

[Compton]

With that being said are you able to answer my questions posted above? I really don't want to purchase the laser if different hardware will be required to complete my applications.

[Compton]

I called into Axiom today. They told me that the Laser has the capability to do power modulations. They are working on a resolution and once it’s resolved they think worse case scenario would be a harness change.

[zmuda01]

This upgrade will be awesome! I use my laser a lot but nowhere near as much as if it were capable of grey scale. I can't wait.

[learjet]

I have been a user for about 2 years. I wondered if grey scale was coming and I noticed that a possible new harness might be needed. If I purchased the module today will the different harness cost $$ any guess how much?

It sounds like you are pleased with your addition?

[Axiom Tool Group]

While we are still working on a resolution, however, our current research is showing that this may not be possible...

It all comes down to the way in which the machine activates the spindle and the laser both.



With the current design and wiring, when the gcode initiates (same code for either)...the control sends a signal which will travel through the laser control board and either activate a relay to send power from the VFD to the spindle or to activate the laser directly.

It appears that the only effective way to get the laser to operate in greyscale would be to rewire and reprogram the controller completely, so that the VFD is no longer user controlled requiring that the RPM is controlled solely by the gcode.

*We are still exploring options to see if the controller can be made to operate both ways simultaneous.

[papadon]

Jul 22, 2020 15:26:36 GMT -5 Axiom Tool Group said:

We have been getting a lot of questions lately regarding the new Laser module by Vectric..

This module was created to allow users easy control of a laser for grey scale shading...adding more photo engraving capability to the software.

*Unfortunately, the Axiom laser or more importantly the controls used do not allow for this type of power modulation...making this software add on useless for the time being.

That said, we are working on a solution which we are hopeful about but may have to rely on some assistance from the Laser and Control manufacturers to get this new feature to work.
In the time being, we wanted to offer this information to help ease phone calls and hopefully save customers from spending money unnecessarily until we know more.

Any progress on this?  Considering buying an Axiom Iconic but also need the laser grey scaling. would like to know when (not if lol) grey scaling of the laser will likely become a reality and will there be an easy customer capable retrofit be available?  Will there be a charge?  holding off on purchase for now

[2far2c]

I took a look at the richauto manual. from what I saw, Y2,Y3, and Y4 output ports on the controller board are for multispeed operation. This allows for 8 different spindle speeds. It's all outlined on page 16 and 17 in the B11 motion controller manual. Taking a look inside my own unit, Only Y1 is connected which is the simple on/off trigger.

I honestly don't know enough about these systems to even understand how that logic works or how these alternative speed states apply to what we would like to accomplish. But it would be nice to have some conversation from someone far brighter than I so we could at least work together on a solution. Not only that but I'm sure there are others that would at least like to try and install other lasers on these machines to at least have some other options.

If somehow using these speed states were an option that required rewiring/reprogramming, and the loss of manual motor control, I think it's totally worthwhile at no liability to axiom. The system as it is works. And if this topic carries on and Axiom is willing to help educate, I think we need to consider that it's being done at our own risk.

The majority of laser drivers out there control laser power via duty cycle/PWM signal coming from the machine controller itself. With 3d printers for example, a common way to connect a laser driver is to use the actual extruder fan output, which allows for variable speed. the signal range is from 0-255 with 0 being off and 255 being max fan speed. These differences are generating a pulses that varies the intensity. We are doing the same type of thing when we turn the dial manually on our spindle no? What I'm confused about is how to send a pulsed signal using gcode to our controllers and how that would be interpreted and output to a laser driver. Using whatever other Y outputs for the speedtepping thing doesn't sound right as the PWM still only requires two wires. Hopefully someone can help explain.

And using vectric at that point to generate g-code may not be the answer at all. It's already a compromise as it is using the z axis up/down to turn on/off the spindle. Consider if you wanted to both engrave (with shading) and cut the piece. the spindle should actually lower slightly to focus the
laser effectively to cut. But in addition to do the engraving/shading part, it would need to duty cycle the laser. I'm not sure Vectric is the answer.

But I think I have a workaround that if someone can help, it would be worth a shot even though still tedious like trying to run a job using multiple bits and creating several Gcode jobs.

Jtech laser drivers don't have a pendent to control duty cycle of the laser but Neje does. it's called an interface/tester module. (I'm not trying to compare quality of lasers here because I know Jtech diodes are Nichia, and their drivers are quality). maybe there is a way to build a pendent/interface board to integrate into their design.

So here is my thought; in the case of Neje, the laser module has the driver built right into their heatsink. Their lasers use PWM/TTL signals to drive the diod. But you can purchase a simple interface board that plugs into laser that manually allows to adjust duty cycle. similar to our spindles. theoretically, we could still plug in the low level input signal to simply turn the laser off and on, but be able to also manually adjust duty cycle of the laser power on the fly. There is a small LCD on their interface board that shows laser power level.

We could program a job on vectric as if we were swapping from drill bit, to v bit, to endmill by creating three different output files. One for light passes and inner shading, one for dark passes and highlights, and one to even cut the job out.

Clearly it's not a perfect solution. But I guess my point was that if we could take in that low level output signal from the richauto controller, and at least be able to duty cycle it on the fly as its going into axioms' laser driver, then machine speed is not such a big factor anymore to control laser line intensity, and we would be more flexible creating projects. Any thoughts?

[Axiom Tool Group]

Dec 12, 2020 19:23:15 GMT -5 2far2c said:

I took a look at the richauto manual. from what I saw, Y2,Y3, and Y4 output ports on the controller board are for multispeed operation. This allows for 8 different spindle speeds. It's all outlined on page 16 and 17 in the B11 motion controller manual. Taking a look inside my own unit, Only Y1 is connected which is the simple on/off trigger.

I honestly don't know enough about these systems to even understand how that logic works or how these alternative speed states apply to what we would like to accomplish. But it would be nice to have some conversation from someone far brighter than I so we could at least work together on a solution. Not only that but I'm sure there are others that would at least like to try and install other lasers on these machines to at least have some other options.

If somehow using these speed states were an option that required rewiring/reprogramming, and the loss of manual motor control, I think it's totally worthwhile at no liability to axiom. The system as it is works. And if this topic carries on and Axiom is willing to help educate, I think we need to consider that it's being done at our own risk.

The majority of laser drivers out there control laser power via duty cycle/PWM signal coming from the machine controller itself. With 3d printers for example, a common way to connect a laser driver is to use the actual extruder fan output, which allows for variable speed. the signal range is from 0-255 with 0 being off and 255 being max fan speed. These differences are generating a pulses that varies the intensity. We are doing the same type of thing when we turn the dial manually on our spindle no? What I'm confused about is how to send a pulsed signal using gcode to our controllers and how that would be interpreted and output to a laser driver. Using whatever other Y outputs for the speedtepping thing doesn't sound right as the PWM still only requires two wires. Hopefully someone can help explain.

And using vectric at that point to generate g-code may not be the answer at all. It's already a compromise as it is using the z axis up/down to turn on/off the spindle. Consider if you wanted to both engrave (with shading) and cut the piece. the spindle should actually lower slightly to focus the
laser effectively to cut. But in addition to do the engraving/shading part, it would need to duty cycle the laser. I'm not sure Vectric is the answer.

But I think I have a workaround that if someone can help, it would be worth a shot even though still tedious like trying to run a job using multiple bits and creating several Gcode jobs.

Jtech laser drivers don't have a pendent to control duty cycle of the laser but Neje does. it's called an interface/tester module. (I'm not trying to compare quality of lasers here because I know Jtech diodes are Nichia, and their drivers are quality). maybe there is a way to build a pendent/interface board to integrate into their design.

So here is my thought; in the case of Neje, the laser module has the driver built right into their heatsink. Their lasers use PWM/TTL signals to drive the diod. But you can purchase a simple interface board that plugs into laser that manually allows to adjust duty cycle. similar to our spindles. theoretically, we could still plug in the low level input signal to simply turn the laser off and on, but be able to also manually adjust duty cycle of the laser power on the fly. There is a small LCD on their interface board that shows laser power level.

We could program a job on vectric as if we were swapping from drill bit, to v bit, to endmill by creating three different output files. One for light passes and inner shading, one for dark passes and highlights, and one to even cut the job out.

Clearly it's not a perfect solution. But I guess my point was that if we could take in that low level output signal from the richauto controller, and at least be able to duty cycle it on the fly as its going into axioms' laser driver, then machine speed is not such a big factor anymore to control laser line intensity, and we would be more flexible creating projects. Any thoughts?

Regarding the varied options for spindle speed control...

As it sits currently, the control system is tied via Y1 to a relay that ultimately will send power to both the spindle and the cooling system. That signal from the Y1 is originally triggered by simple spindle ON/OFF commands in the Gcode.

While its is possible for the RichAuto controller to use the Y2-4 pins in addition...this has been used in the past to give machines incremental RPM steps or to allow for GCode control of the RPM.


With our focus originally on inexperienced, first time users...who thru little fault of their own, often assume that the CAD/CAM setting defaults that cam from the software manufacturer apply to every machine, tool and material....I assume that for this reason, our current VFD/User controlled option was selected due to simplicity.

The beauty of this, is that it allows an infinitely variable control that is adjustable at any time. So that when the bit begins to get dull, or the material density changes...the RPM can be adjusted for cut quality and chip load easily without using the handheld percentage intervals or by making adjustment to the GCode.


When adding our laser to the machine, the operation is very similar.

The Y1 pin, which is triggered by the same spindle ON/OFF commands (not Z-Axis Up/Down...thats Vectric's laser module, not ours), thus turning the laser ON and OFF.


Presently, it appears that changing this system to allow for Laser PWM via GCode commands would be more extensive than simple changing how the laser attaches.

The entire spindle control would need to change as the controller firmware can either operate the spindle as it does now...or use the additional pins, not both. Then if the firmware is changed, the control system and the spindle VFD would need to be rewired and reprogrammed. Which is largely too many changes to be done on the customers end.

With the focus on trying to keep accessories and updates applicable to all machines...changes like this, unfortunately would not apply to all which simply means that its not likely to be pursued heavily.


We are currently exploring alternatives still, to see if something ales may be possible, however, the testing and development process is slow. Made even more so due to covid delays and a higher than average sales volume.

Ultimately, there are many pieces to this puzzle. Including, controller programming for which, while we can request changes...we do not have complete control over it as some features will effect of aspects fo the control and may simply not be achievable.

[2far2c]

Then I suppose the simplest thing option at this point(that controls laser power) is to use a laser system that uses TTL for the on/off function, which has a control module that can adjust a PWM signal output manually on the fly; similar to our spindles. I have something coming in that I’ll try and mess with just to see if the concept would works.

If I’m right, and shorting out the TTL pins turns on the laser module, then my understanding would be to connect Y1 from CNC to one of the TTL pins, and a GND line from the CNC to the other TTL pin. When the Y1 signal turns on, this should complete the GND connection and short out the pins turning the laser on/off. The board itself has PWM modulation which controls the laser and with any luck, we would be able to control power manually.

[colofan]

I have a pro+ and want to add the laser as well. Since you sell the B58 controller for the elite could you also sell the laser with the B58 controller and then swap out harnesses to add the additional control for the grayscale function of the laser? Seems that JTech already offers the functions leveraging their work. Yes I understand it would probably double the cost but the added features would be worth it.

[chaney]

Is there an update for this topic? I bought the laser when vectric released the new software without doing my research. (My fault) but was hopeful for a time that axiom was going to make it work.

Thanks, Greg

[Chad]

Greg, our testing with this has proven that the main hurdle is the control system.

Presently, our machines operate the spindle in a ON/OFF fashion...where the controls, send an ON/OFF signal that triggers power to be sent to both the spindle and cooling system.

When the laser is installed, it operates in much the same way.


In order for the laser power to vary with gcode...the complete system would need to change (effecting the spindle as well). In which case, its not clear that all the control options used by Axiom will allow for this.

Presently, we are working to develop our next generation of laser for the Elite line of machines....and hope that we can find a solution for that more sophisticated control.


If this works, then we hope to be able to move forward with the other machines as well.

[mecncflea33]

I am new to the site and to Axiom in general. has any progress been made in the leat 2 years to add a laser module to the Axiom cnc's ?

[gerry]

nope....

[grossmsj]

The machine can do these sorts of things, but the RichAuto controller isn't capable of supporting Pulsed Width Modulation (PWM). If you switch out the controller to something more capable (not trivial to most of us), it can do grayscale via PWM.

You might want to check out the I2R machines. They use a more typical computer based controller that gives wider capabilities. The mechanical 'guts' of the machine is basically the same, but it has a more advanced control system. The I2R machines support OPT lasers which are really, really nice.

[jgarciaa]

Sept 8, 2020 4:22:28 GMT -5 Compton said:

I'm looking to purchase the AR16 and I plan on getting the laser module with it. I plan on doing pictures with the laser module. Will it not work for that application right now and if so when you get a solution will it be a free software update or will it be another laser module purchase?

Considering your interest in purchasing the AR16 with the laser module for picture engraving, the Monport laser is indeed a compelling option due to its user-friendly interface, high quality, and affordability. However, it's essential to note that the current software may not support this application. To address this, you might inquire about future software updates to enable picture engraving with the laser module. Whether this update will be provided for free or if it requires a separate purchase of a compatible laser module could depend on the company's policies. I recommend reaching out to Monport directly or checking their website for clarification on future updates and their pricing structure. monportlaser.com/collections/co2-laser-engravers/products/monport-40w-lightburn-ready-12-x-8-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-with-fda-approval?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3

[jgarciaa]

Feb 4, 2021 11:01:52 GMT -5 colofan said:

I have a pro+ and want to add the laser as well. Since you sell the B58 controller for the elite could you also sell the laser with the B58 controller and then swap out harnesses to add the additional control for the grayscale function of the laser? Seems that JTech already offers the functions leveraging their work. Yes I understand it would probably double the cost but the added features would be worth it.

Certainly! Considering your interest in upgrading your Monport Pro+ with a laser module, the Monport laser indeed stands out for its excellent usability, quality, and affordability. While Monport may not currently offer a laser module with the B58 controller specifically for the Pro+, it's worth exploring the possibility of such an upgrade. By integrating the laser with the B58 controller and swapping out harnesses for grayscale functionality, you could potentially leverage additional features offered by JTech. While this upgrade might increase costs, the enhanced capabilities could be well worth the investment. I suggest reaching out to Monport directly to inquire about the feasibility of this customization and any associated costs. monportlaser.com/collections/co2-laser-engravers/products/monport-40w-lightburn-ready-12-x-8-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-with-fda-approval?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3

[jgarciaa]

Nov 18, 2020 8:55:12 GMT -5 papadon said:

Jul 22, 2020 15:26:36 GMT -5 Axiom Tool Group said:

We have been getting a lot of questions lately regarding the new Laser module by Vectric..

This module was created to allow users easy control of a laser for grey scale shading...adding more photo engraving capability to the software.

*Unfortunately, the Axiom laser or more importantly the controls used do not allow for this type of power modulation...making this software add on useless for the time being.

That said, we are working on a solution which we are hopeful about but may have to rely on some assistance from the Laser and Control manufacturers to get this new feature to work.
In the time being, we wanted to offer this information to help ease phone calls and hopefully save customers from spending money unnecessarily until we know more.

Any progress on this?  Considering buying an Axiom Iconic but also need the laser grey scaling. would like to know when (not if lol) grey scaling of the laser will likely become a reality and will there be an easy customer capable retrofit be available?  Will there be a charge?  holding off on purchase for now

Certainly! The Monport laser is indeed a compelling option due to its exceptional ease of use, high quality, and affordability. Regarding your inquiry about laser grayscale functionality, while there may not be immediate progress, it's worth noting that Monport continuously works on enhancing their products. You might consider reaching out directly to Monport for updates on when grayscale functionality for the laser might become available and whether there will be an easy retrofit option for customers. As for potential charges associated with this upgrade, it's advisable to inquire with Monport directly for clarification. Your decision to hold off on purchasing the Axiom Iconic until you have more information demonstrates a prudent approach to ensuring that your needs are fully met. monportlaser.com/collections/co2-laser-engravers/products/monport-40w-lightburn-ready-12-x-8-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-with-fda-approval?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3

[jgarciaa]

Nov 14, 2020 15:41:52 GMT -5 learjet said:

I have been a user for about 2 years. I wondered if grey scale was coming and I noticed that a possible new harness might be needed. If I purchased the module today will the different harness cost $$ any guess how much?

It sounds like you are pleased with your addition?

Absolutely! The Monport laser is indeed a fantastic choice, known for its ease of use, top-notch quality, and affordability. As a satisfied user for the past two years, you're likely aware of its many benefits. Regarding your inquiry about grayscale functionality and the potential need for a new harness, it's best to reach out directly to Monport for precise information on any associated costs. While I can't provide an exact figure, Monport's customer support should be able to offer insights into pricing and compatibility. Overall, if you're pleased with your Monport laser module so far, it's a testament to its reliability and performance, making it a worthwhile addition to your setup. monportlaser.com/collections/co2-laser-engravers/products/monport-40w-lightburn-ready-12-x-8-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-with-fda-approval?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3