Tool Settings Tuning

[Barry K]

I am a fairly new Axiom customer with a AR8 Pro which I am learning . I would like some comments regarding speeds and feeds. I have asked the question before and I get information all over the map Specifically let me suggest that I have been using the following settings when cutting Maple


Settings I am using currently
End Mill (Amana 46202) 0.25 2 Flute  Pass depth 1.25 (50%of Dia) Step over 0.0525 (21%) spindle speed 15000 rpm Feed Rate 100 In/per min Plunge rate 70 In per min

Are these high or low from what you are using

I have listed this example but use the same logic for 2 Flute End mills and Ball nose in sizes 0.125 & .0625

Is it reasonable to run Feed rate of 100 In/per Min on my Axiom machine . I do not understand chip load calculations and am looking for help


Thank you in advance for your comments

[gerry]

The pass depth is about 0.125 NOT 1.25 (that's 1-1/4"). The plunge rate of 70 is pretty high.

[Barry K]

You are correct . The pass depth is 0.125 or 50% of my cutter size. If you suggest that a Plunge rate 70 In per min is too high what would you suggest ? What about the rest of what i asked ? You know I am asking for suggested ratios of speeds feeds and spindles speeds for end mills being used in Maple You must have a rule of thumb you are using ...
I a have asked this question before on the Axiom forum and it seems to be a BIG secret. When i ask on other sites they suggest that the Axiom machine will not run at the normal larger machine feeds and rates so I am asking what is being used by other Axiom users

This is a mystery to me

[gerry]

Jun 30, 2019 15:21:36 GMT -5 Barry K said:

This is a mystery to me

This is a mystery....   All looks OK to me, except I almost never run a plunge rate over 30. I only increase it over that to speed up ramps (they run @ plunge rate... at least Vectric). In a ramp, the plunge rate is a function of the distance traveled. I don't know a thing about Maple, 'cause I don't use it. I certainly can't give my rates as gospel because I'm very conservative with speeds and feeds. I know there are folks on this forum that use much more aggressive S&F than I do. 

<RANT ON> There's a lot of participation lacking on these forums. Folks login, get their questions answered, then you never hear from them again. At least I get tired of answering the same questions over and over, then never hearing from those users again. I'm not pointing at you. You seem to be trying very hard. It's just seems 'why' the 'seasoned' users don't respond much after a while. <RANT OFF>

[stevem]

I agree with gerry: I hardly ever have my plunge rate over 30 ipm. As for feeds and speeds, if I am cutting soft woods, I usually run at 60-100 ipm and speed of about 15,000. On hard woods, I run at about 40-80 ipm and run at 12,500 rpm.
This is for a 1/4" end mill. When using a larger bit, you may want to slow down the feed rate some. I also rarely cut any deeper than 1/2 the diameter of the bit in any woods. If I am not in a rush, Ill take a cut depth of about 1/4 the diameter of the cutter.
Like everyone else, you just have to be patient and try different speeds and feeds to see what works best for you. That is why nobody has given you direct answers to your questions.
I don't look at this machine as a high end production machine that will run at 200-400 ipm. It's not that kind of machine.
You could probably run the Axiom at the 200 ipm that they say it will cut at, but the depth of cut would have to be less than 30% of the cutter diameter.
I really like my machine, but if I were a big production shop and not just one of thousands of people working out of their garage, I would be looking at something more substantial and cost 2-3 times what a Axiom costs.
if you have the room, you could run 2 Axiom's slower, they would probably last longer and still cost much less than a high speed production machine.

Just my 2 cents

[loren]

If you don't want to do the calculations yourself, there are some calculators on the web that can help you get close, such as:

brturn.github.io/feeds-and-speeds/?in_METRIC=false&max_RPM=24000&min_RPM=500&in_PEAK_TORQUE_RPM=5020&max_IPM=200&min_IPM=1&max_HP=3&in_E=27&in_DIAMETER=0.25&in_TEETH=2&in_BALLNOSE=false&in_L=1&in_HELIX=30&in_UNITPOWER=0.2&max_SFM=800&min_SFM=100&max_CHIPLOAD=0.0025&min_CHIPLOAD=0.0008&max_DOC=0.75&min_DOC=0.01&max_WOC=0.375&min_WOC=0.01&max_DEFLECTION=0.001&in_ADAPTIVE=false&ux_E=HSS&ux_UNITPOWER=Wood&

but you'll probably want to adjust these. For instance, this seems slow to me - might burn maple, but be totally fine in oak for instance.

[Barry K]

Thanks for the input. I am up here in Canada and did some research and thought the Axiom machines are great quality. I drove down last Fall and took the beginners course to see if I would like it .... and took the plunge . A little difficult getting the machine as nobody within 500 miles sells the machine . I now have one and love it .. learning Aspire and moving forward but have a lot of trouble with the correct run data . Some people suggest that you can hear the machine when it is running right .. but if you don't know what to listen for it can be challenging .

I try to participate in the forum to help others but my knowledge base is rather limited to help others. I have recently retired and purchased the AR8 Pro but wished I had gone for the AR8 ELITE. . I might upgrade someday .. after I learn a lot more

Thanks all for your input and help

[Mezalick]

Barry, the Feeds and Speed numbers are no secret, it's just that there are so many variables to consider.
Material hardness, Machine rigidity, Strength of spindle / router , sharpness of bit, etc,,must all be taken into account.
If you want some real basic numbers to start with try 60" per min for both the Feed and Speed and 1/3rd the diameter for the Pass depth.
Adjust as needed...If you break a bit, slow down, if you're burning the material ( wood ), speed it up.
It's just that simple.
Others will give different numbers and that's okay, we all settle on what we're comfortable with.

Michael

[Barry K]

Thanks for your information . I had thought that since I am suggesting I was cutting Maple with a AR8 pro . The variables of Machine rigidity Strength of spindle Tool type (End Mill Amana 46202) have been settled . I ask because I have run this 1/4 Amana bit Pass depth 0.125 (50%of Dia) Step over 0.0525 (21%) spindle speed 12000-15000 rpm Feed Rate 100 In/per min Plunge rate 70 In per min without breaking a bit or burning the material. With the info you are suggesting (60" per min for both the Feed and Speed and 1/3rd the diameter) I am running too hard

I just thought that there was more exact info considering a good portion of the people on this forum may be running the same machine as me

People keep suggesting you should run it until you brake bits or burn material and adjust from there

Thanks to all ... I will just experiment

[Mezalick]

Jul 1, 2019 8:59:31 GMT -5 Barry K said:

Thanks for your information . I had thought that since I am suggesting I was cutting Maple with a AR8 pro . The variables of Machine rigidity Strength of spindle Tool type (End Mill Amana 46202) have been settled . I ask because I have run this 1/4 Amana bit Pass depth 0.125 (50%of Dia) Step over 0.0525 (21%) spindle speed 12000-15000 rpm Feed Rate 100 In/per min Plunge rate 70 In per min without breaking a bit or burning the material. With the info you are suggesting (60" per min for both the Feed and Speed and 1/3rd the diameter) I am running too hard

I just thought that there was more exact info considering a good portion of the people on this forum may be running the same machine as me

People keep suggesting you should run it until you brake bits or burn material and adjust from there

Thanks to all ... I will just experiment

Barry, 
Let's not forget to add into the equation the "FEAR" factor...
The fear some people have of running a tool too hard or too fast.
It's not a bad thing as I have seen that the "correct" setting can be in a range of numbers....
Find what works for you.
I think if you looked at all the numbers given here, you'll see some "average" setting.
Nothing really extreme...

Best of luck,
Michael

[damonlayne]

Not a big secret on Feed & Speed...just a lot of trial and error until the user is happy with their choice and the chips they are producing. I like my chips to be the size of small grains of rice. If your are making a bunch of saw dust with your bit, you might want to adjust something before you burn up your tool.

I run a lot of hard maple, walnut, and cherry
-plunge rate about 20
-VFD @ 200 (200 x 60 = 12,000 RPM)
-Cut depth = 0.15" - 0.20" per pass
-I don't push my machine that hard...never at 100ipm.
-I use very similar Feed & Speed with 1/4" end mill and v-bits.

When it comes to drilling (pecking) holes for my cribbage boards, I slow WAY down to VFD @ 25 (1500 RPM) for my drill bit.

[redwood]

For a 1/4" endmill on softer wood, I use 1/8" depth, 80 - 100 ipm and plunge at 30 ipm. For hardwoods and smaller bits, I'll back off a little. In 3 years, I've never broken a bit or burned the wood. (knock on wood)

[RetiredAFChief]

Jun 30, 2019 10:18:30 GMT -5 Barry K said:

I am a fairly new Axiom customer with a AR8 Pro which I am learning . I would like some comments regarding speeds and feeds. I have asked the question before and I get information all over the map Specifically let me suggest that I have been using the following settings when cutting Maple


Settings I am using currently
End Mill (Amana 46202) 0.25 2 Flute  Pass depth 1.25 (50%of Dia) Step over 0.0525 (21%) spindle speed 15000 rpm Feed Rate 100 In/per min Plunge rate 70 In per min

Are these high or low from what you are using

I have listed this example but use the same logic for 2 Flute End mills and Ball nose in sizes 0.125 & .0625

Is it reasonable to run Feed rate of 100 In/per Min on my Axiom machine . I do not understand chip load calculations and am looking for help


Thank you in advance for your comments

Something I have learned this week is Toolstoday.com has a page dedicated to bit information for Amana bits.  www.toolstoday.com/t-cnc-software-library   It doesn't list every bit but a lot of them and you can import tool data into Vetric software.  Its a good start point since its the "recommended" settings.  As others have said trial and error for what you are cutting.