Is my AR6 Pro+ a lemon?

[baron]

I bought an AR6 Pro+ for my high school woodworking program with a grant in June 2021.  We assembled it and found that the coupler on the x-axis wasn't secured so it would zero properly but I found a bolt and fixed that.  I was able to run my first job in July and then went on vacation.  I was also able to run a couple of jobs in the fall of 2021. 

When I returned from Christmas vacation in January 2022 I couldn't set the spindle speed.  We tried to "reprogram" the controller with the help of Axiom, but it didn't work so we sent the Siemens controller back to Axiom, as it was under warranty.  They couldn't fix it either so they replaced it. 

It returned later in spring 2022... we were charged for the shipping.  When I tried to use it, it wouldn't work at all.  I opened the controller box and found a relay lying in the bottom, it obviously unplugged during transit.  I plugged it back in and tried to zero it but the speeds of all axis were out of control and it wouldn't sense the limits.  I broke a small bit on the puck when I tried to set the Z-axis and it was slamming into the sides when I tried to zero x and y.  I tried to get help from Axiom but I gave up and machine sat idle.

In May 2023 I finally got tired of watching this extremely expensive machine taking up so much space in my shop and contacted Axiom again.  Chad sent me a data.bak file and it fixed the problem and I was able to run a job again.  

This fall I got some of my students using Ventric and when we went to use the machine last week I couldn't zero it and I couldn't move it at all on the x, y, or z axis.  I am so frustrated. 

We have several 3D printers and a laser machine and I have never had any of the problems with them that I've experienced with this machine.  It has less than 16 hours of work time on it over 2.5 years.  Why is this machine so unreliable?

What can I do to get the gantry and router communicating with my controller?

[Neil]

Probably best to stay away from teaching woodworking. By the time you get it working you students will be off to college. Besides, by the time you have read any suggestions here and taken a Christmas vacation you will be into spring 24 and we won't know if the suggestions worked or not.

[dadealeus]

Dec 5, 2023 12:50:42 GMT -5 baron said:

I bought an AR6 Pro+ for my high school woodworking program with a grant in June 2021.  We assembled it and found that the coupler on the x-axis wasn't secured so it would zero properly but I found a bolt and fixed that.  I was able to run my first job in July and then went on vacation.  I was also able to run a couple of jobs in the fall of 2021. 

When I returned from Christmas vacation in January 2022 I couldn't set the spindle speed.  We tried to "reprogram" the controller with the help of Axiom, but it didn't work so we sent the Siemens controller back to Axiom, as it was under warranty.  They couldn't fix it either so they replaced it. 

It returned later in spring 2022... we were charged for the shipping.  When I tried to use it, it wouldn't work at all.  I opened the controller box and found a relay lying in the bottom, it obviously unplugged during transit.  I plugged it back in and tried to zero it but the speeds of all axis were out of control and it wouldn't sense the limits.  I broke a small bit on the puck when I tried to set the Z-axis and it was slamming into the sides when I tried to zero x and y.  I tried to get help from Axiom but I gave up and machine sat idle.

In May 2023 I finally got tired of watching this extremely expensive machine taking up so much space in my shop and contacted Axiom again.  Chad sent me a data.bak file and it fixed the problem and I was able to run a job again.  

This fall I got some of my students using Ventric and when we went to use the machine last week I couldn't zero it and I couldn't move it at all on the x, y, or z axis.  I am so frustrated. 

We have several 3D printers and a laser machine and I have never had any of the problems with them that I've experienced with this machine.  It has less than 16 hours of work time on it over 2.5 years.  Why is this machine so unreliable?

What can I do to get the gantry and router communicating with my controller?

Man, sorry to hear about your issues. I've had problems like that before with other machinery (where one issue sort of snowballs into 50 others that would have never been an issue if the first one hadn't happened).

Fortunately, my Axiom has only had one issue over the years. I think the controller took a static shock and I had to re-flash it with Chad's help. It's been fine ever since.

Unfortunately, I've heard many horror stories about the controller you have (mine machine was purchased before Axiom switched to that one). I don't think your issue is so much with the machine as it probably is with the controller, itself, but I'm not sure what can be done about it.

Honestly, I personally think that Axiom made a mistake by switching to that controller. The "right" solution would be for them to recall those controllers and replace them with ones that function properly (like the one I have). Honestly, I don't know if Axiom can afford to do that without going under though - either way, I don't think it's going to happen.

If I were in your position, I would start by removing Axiom from the equation. The Axiom hardware (at least the machine I have) is fantastic. It's well built, sturdy, and still functions like the day I first bought it (with normal lubrication and cleaning). The problem seems to be localized to the controller, so I would search for just that controller and see if I could find solutions for it.

In other words, if you try to address the problem of "Axiom machine won't home properly" - you're going to search through a bunch of stuff that won't help. Whereas if you search for "Siemens Model: XYZ won't home", you might have a lot better luck.

I'm not sure if that helps, but I hope it does. It saddens me to see such a great machine rendered useless by a stupid controller issue through no fault of the purchaser.

[grossmsj]

The Siemens Sinamic V20 is a VFD. It turns single phase 220 into three phase for the spindle. It just controls the spindle. It has no effect on motion. It's hard to work with (I have one), but it's pretty reliable.
The RichAuto pendant talks to the A1X board to control motion-related functions. It's 'the brains', albeit sort of primordial. It certainly sounds like most the problems you're having are motion control related.
I'd ask to have that whole white box replaced. If there is a wiring problem, or a board problem, it would be very hard to diagnose yourself.
Axiom got bought by JPW Industries in late 2021. JPW is Powermatic, Jet, Baileigh, etc. They have constraints being part of that I'm sure, but money shouldn't be one of them right now. It's good the principals at Axiom still pick up the phone. I find them quite helpful. It sounds like a lemon, but you either have to sell it for a big loss, or rely on Axiom to fix it.

[dadealeus]

Dec 5, 2023 18:42:47 GMT -5 grossmsj said:

The Siemens Sinamic V20 is a VFD. It turns single phase 220 into three phase for the spindle. It just controls the spindle. It has no effect on motion. It's hard to work with (I have one), but it's pretty reliable.
The RichAuto pendant talks to the A1X board to control motion-related functions. It's 'the brains', albeit sort of primordial. It certainly sounds like most the problems you're having are motion control related.
I'd ask to have that whole white box replaced. If there is a wiring problem, or a board problem, it would be very hard to diagnose yourself.
Axiom got bought by JPW Industries in late 2021. JPW is Powermatic, Jet, Baileigh, etc. They have constraints being part of that I'm sure, but money shouldn't be one of them right now. It's good the principals at Axiom still pick up the phone. I find them quite helpful. It sounds like a lemon, but you either have to sell it for a big loss, or rely on Axiom to fix it.

Ahh, I had assumed they sold it as an entire package - not piecemeal; thanks for letting me know. He had mentioned that his original issue was the VFD, but I thought they would have swapped the controller, too, if they had moved to a Siemens VFD.

baron:
Either way, the suggestion is still the same; get the model number for whatever controller you do have and do some searches related to that rather than coupling it with Axiom.

Worse-case scenario, you could just replace the controller with a new one, calibrate it, and basically set it up as a new machine. Almost all 3-axis mills are the same; steppers to control the XYZ motion and some limit switches to home by. The rest is done in the software/firmware. A brand new controller is about $500 on Alibaba and even with tax, you're under the $800 duty-free mark for personal imports:

www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4-Axis-DSP-Controller-Board-Handle_62243025923.html

Again, I'd look at that option as a worse-case scenario, but it's an option nonetheless and you'd likely lose a lot less money than if you sold the machine.

[grossmsj]

Can you turn the spindle on? Power for that comes from the VFD and three separate breakers (If I recall correctly)

I'm thinking this could be as simple as a loose wire, or one that needs to be reseated from just sitting and corroded. The axes are driven by three stepper motors (mine are Leadshine and there are actually 4 in your box). Those motors get power from a 48V power supply. Since all three don't work, it may be the the power supply fuse or wiring is bad.
This is the sort of thing Axiom could step you through over the phone, if you are comfortable being inside that box.

[baron]

Thanks for the advice! I'm going to look start from the beginning with checking over the wiring and fuses and it's probably time to call Axiom again. I haven't had much luck getting responses through email. I'd be willing to replace the controller and pendant if necessary. I would really like to use it... I'm just getting pretty leery about relying on it working the way it should and that doesn't fly well when working with teenagers.

[baron]

Quick update. I did find a loose connection and it's working again. Crossing my figures that that is all it's going to take.

[grossmsj]

Awesome! Where did you find it?
Axiom is sort of famous for things coming loose. When I've had problems, it's been my VFD behaving badly. A loose wire would seem pleasant compared to dealing with that VFD.

[aluomala]

Dec 6, 2023 13:03:07 GMT -5 grossmsj said:

Axiom is sort of famous for things coming loose. 


This is one of the truest statements I have read here. I have 2 Axioms (AR4+Pro, AR8+Pro) and both arrived with either an errant nut in the bottom of the container (as it turns out, it was one of the nuts/bolts that held the wiring harness under the machine, and it almost got caught up during machining.... lucky I spotted it, or it would have been an expensive day), or things loose right out of the gate. When I mentioned this (to tech support), I was told that "They get loose in transit...." or some such excuse. LocTite exists for a reason. As do torque wrenches... I find it's a very blasé means of shrugging off poor quality control: EVERYTHING moves via ship, train, tractor trailer, so using that as an excuse for the end-user to have to double and triple check every bolt, fastener, connection is a little much. The touch-off puck is probably the biggest offender for poor quality control/quality of components, and it is a pretty basic setup. Yet it has probably destroyed more bits, and user confidence, than any other part of the machine (spoiler alert: I don't use it anymore, because it is so faulty and I can't afford to destroy any more bits with it). 

Allan

[dadealeus]

The touch-off puck still functions for me, but the wires are pulling out of the puck, so I tend to agree.

Basically, the factory speed settings were far too fast and were driving the bits into the puck and either digging in, or breaking the bits. My solution was:

1) Reduce the touch-off speed by a ton in the controller settings.
2) Move the puck out of the way (so you don't accidentally stab the puck) and manually lower the bit until it would be close to the surface of the puck.
3) Move the puck back under the bit and proceed with the touch-off function.

This way it moves slow enough not to damage either the bit or puck and it doesn't take 8 years to perform the function automatically.

[jgarciaa]

Dec 5, 2023 12:50:42 GMT -5 baron said:

I bought an AR6 Pro+ for my high school woodworking program with a grant in June 2021.  We assembled it and found that the coupler on the x-axis wasn't secured so it would zero properly but I found a bolt and fixed that.  I was able to run my first job in July and then went on vacation.  I was also able to run a couple of jobs in the fall of 2021. 

When I returned from Christmas vacation in January 2022 I couldn't set the spindle speed.  We tried to "reprogram" the controller with the help of Axiom, but it didn't work so we sent the Siemens controller back to Axiom, as it was under warranty.  They couldn't fix it either so they replaced it. 

It returned later in spring 2022... we were charged for the shipping.  When I tried to use it, it wouldn't work at all.  I opened the controller box and found a relay lying in the bottom, it obviously unplugged during transit.  I plugged it back in and tried to zero it but the speeds of all axis were out of control and it wouldn't sense the limits.  I broke a small bit on the puck when I tried to set the Z-axis and it was slamming into the sides when I tried to zero x and y.  I tried to get help from Axiom but I gave up and machine sat idle.

In May 2023 I finally got tired of watching this extremely expensive machine taking up so much space in my shop and contacted Axiom again.  Chad sent me a data.bak file and it fixed the problem and I was able to run a job again.  

This fall I got some of my students using Ventric and when we went to use the machine last week I couldn't zero it and I couldn't move it at all on the x, y, or z axis.  I am so frustrated. 

We have several 3D printers and a laser machine and I have never had any of the problems with them that I've experienced with this machine.  It has less than 16 hours of work time on it over 2.5 years.  Why is this machine so unreliable?

What can I do to get the gantry and router communicating with my controller?



It's disheartening to hear about the ongoing challenges you've faced with your AR6 Pro+ CNC machine, especially considering its limited usage and the effort you've invested in troubleshooting. It's understandable to feel frustrated with the reliability issues, particularly given the importance of the machine for your woodworking program. To address the communication problems between the gantry and router with your controller, I recommend reaching out to Axiom's customer support once more to convey the persistent issues you're encountering. Provide them with a detailed account of the problems you've faced, including the steps you've taken to resolve them so far. They may offer additional troubleshooting steps, provide software updates, or offer a replacement component if necessary. Additionally, consider documenting all communication and issues encountered for future reference and warranty purposes. Despite the challenges, I hope you can find a satisfactory resolution to ensure the machine's functionality aligns with your woodworking program's needs. monportlaser.com/collections/co2-laser-engravers/products/monport-40w-lightburn-ready-12-x-8-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-with-fda-approval?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3