Generic Collets (not Amana brand)

[pedro]

Any exprience with collets from amazon? Visually they look exactly the same. 

I made the mistake of not checking first when I needed a 1/8 collet and got it from Axioms page. On amazon the Amana set of 4 costs 89 (while on Axiom they cost 30 each). Now I need a 3/8 and was wondering if I should try a generic one. The nut looks identical and way cheaper, so I got a few, not as critical. But collet needs to be precise, to hold the tool and to be centered...

Any experience?

thanks

[gerry]

yea..... Don't buy cheap collets. Buy a reputable name brand. A very minor milling problem, not visible, can cause bit wobble and especially slippage. I tries some of the cheapies... and learned my lesson. Get them from a good tool company or someone like Amana, All Industrial Tool Supply, or PreciseBits.

[pedro]

Thanks, yeah, what I though. The Nut seems less critical, and easy to check if it works. But collets need precision...

[dadealeus]

Feb 8, 2023 15:10:20 GMT -5 pedro said:

Any exprience with collets from amazon? Visually they look exactly the same. 

I made the mistake of not checking first when I needed a 1/8 collet and got it from Axioms page. On amazon the Amana set of 4 costs 89 (while on Axiom they cost 30 each). Now I need a 3/8 and was wondering if I should try a generic one. The nut looks identical and way cheaper, so I got a few, not as critical. But collet needs to be precise, to hold the tool and to be centered...

Any experience?

thanks

Personally, I've almost exclusively used "cheap" collets from Amazon when I needed a size that was different from the collets I ordered when I purchased the machine.

They work fine for me, but I also tend to stick to sub 10k RPMs on my spindles (usually around 6k) for most work as it's quieter, doesn't push the machine as hard, and the only real downside seems to be additional cut time (which, for most projects, is a non-issue for me).

I do agree, however, that if you're running in the 16k+ RPM range on your spindle, you want everything to be as precise as possible because the increase in force is applied to those imperfections and will exaggerate them in proportion to the extra speed in your spindle - causing extra wear on your spindle and less precise cuts in your materials.

Just my two cents.

[pedro]

Feb 9, 2023 11:03:29 GMT -5 dadealeus said:

Feb 8, 2023 15:10:20 GMT -5 pedro said:

They work fine for me, but I also tend to stick to sub 10k RPMs on my spindles (usually around 6k) for most work as it's quieter, doesn't push the machine as hard, and the only real downside seems to be additional cut time (which, for most projects, is a non-issue for me).

I do agree, however, that if you're running in the 16k+ RPM range on your spindle, you want everything to be as precise as possible because the increase in force is applied to those imperfections and will exaggerate them in proportion to the extra speed in your spindle - causing extra wear on your spindle and less precise cuts in your materials.

Just my two cents.

waw...under 10k? What bits are you running? I never go under 18k...first, it is a pain in the back to turn my RPMs down in my controller, could take me 15 minutes to reach to 5kRPM, but then...what bit runs so slow?

[dadealeus]

Feb 9, 2023 13:41:07 GMT -5 pedro said:

waw...under 10k? What bits are you running? I never go under 18k...first, it is a pain in the back to turn my RPMs down in my controller, could take me 15 minutes to reach to 5kRPM, but then...what bit runs so slow?

Hah, I hear you on the controller. I have an earlier model that does not have the knob issue that a lot of people have - so sorry to hear you were affected by that; it sounds incredibly annoying.

You can pretty much use any bit at a much slower RPM so long as you also reduce the feed rate proportionally. As I said, for me, the additional time isn't an issue on most projects. However, I understand that it definitely is for a lot of people.

As an example: I'll run a 1/4" diameter, 2 flute up-cut through yellow pine at 6000 rpm, 120 ipm - that works well for me for those cuts.

For HDU (high density urethane foam board) at 20 pcf density, I'll run even slower RPMs, but a faster feed: 5700rpm @ 200 ipm for the same bit.

I guess it just depends on what people are cutting.

[pedro]

Feb 9, 2023 17:16:53 GMT -5 dadealeus said:

Feb 9, 2023 13:41:07 GMT -5 pedro said:

waw...under 10k? What bits are you running? I never go under 18k...first, it is a pain in the back to turn my RPMs down in my controller, could take me 15 minutes to reach to 5kRPM, but then...what bit runs so slow?

Hah, I hear you on the controller. I have an earlier model that does not have the knob issue that a lot of people have - so sorry to hear you were affected by that; it sounds incredibly annoying.

You can pretty much use any bit at a much slower RPM so long as you also reduce the feed rate proportionally. As I said, for me, the additional time isn't an issue on most projects. However, I understand that it definitely is for a lot of people.

As an example: I'll run a 1/4" diameter, 2 flute up-cut through yellow pine at 6000 rpm, 120 ipm - that works well for me for those cuts.

For HDU (high density urethane foam board) at 20 pcf density, I'll run even slower RPMs, but a faster feed: 5700rpm @ 200 ipm for the same bit.

I guess it just depends on what people are cutting.

Thanks, good to know, every day I learn something new. I am always afraid of damaging something so I always run under 100 ipm anyway, but the RPMs are never under 18k...even a 1/4 I use at 22rpm. Will try it out. Thanks. (yes, the controller is very annoying...) 

[dadealeus]

Feb 13, 2023 8:19:40 GMT -5 pedro said:

Thanks, good to know, every day I learn something new. I am always afraid of damaging something so I always run under 100 ipm anyway, but the RPMs are never under 18k...even a 1/4 I use at 22rpm. Will try it out. Thanks. (yes, the controller is very annoying...) 

Sure thing! One note I forgot to mention was that I try to make sure that my depth of cut is around 1/2 to 1x the diameter of the bit for those speeds (so, 1/8" to 1/4" depth of cut for a 1/4" bit).

Single-flute cutters can go deeper, but I usually reserve my single flute cutters for plastics and metals.

[savantpcs]

I have been using cheap chinesesium collets and nuts for a while and part of me has been naggingly thinking that was probably not a good idea. If you find yourself scratching your head as to why surface finishes arent as good as you think they could be then having higher quality collets and nuts would at the very least eliminate that from the vast amount of variables we have to consider when CNC machining on a router.

I did however purchase a few collets (not the nuts) that were considered much higher quality and they definitely did great. Not sure if mixing the bad nut with a good collet was a bad idea but its always what the principle says: you get what you pay for (usually  )

[michiganmaker]

Check out Morse collets on a site like PTsolutions.com I am a cnc machinist and we use these they have a runout tolerance of .0005 I do believe. I am running them in my ar8 pro and they are working great. The collet nut is actually very important that it is good quality because if you've ever notice that there are holes drilled in it or possible a pin pressed in. those are there because the balance the collet to ensure it runs true and does wobble your spindle. Just food for thought.

[Bob]

"Check out Morse collets on a site like PTsolutions.com"
This references a physical therapy site and has nothing to do with CNC.

Although the rest of the post sounds good.

[aluomala]

Here is the link for PT Solutions: www.pts-tools.com/catalogue/group/6402

[pedro]

Hi y'all, happy Thanksgiving.

I am coming back to this thread since yesterday I found out that the E Nuts I bought make my spindle vibrate too much, so it seems not to be balanced right. I bought a cheap brand called QWORK and was using them for a while now, but yesterday I heard somehow over the dust extractor and my ear protection a strange noise. So I just turned on the spindle and there it was this sound. I switched to the nut that came with my CNC and the noise was gone.

So, what is a GOOD brand of E Nuts ? I see Amana sells one but it is 4 times as expensive and there is a review saying it was not centered as well (I guess Amana brands then but do not build them).

I will try buying different brands (UXcell is the only one I know form Amazon offerings), so will see. But any suggestion, appreciated.

[dadealeus]

Nov 23, 2023 10:52:58 GMT -5 pedro said:

Hi y'all, happy Thanksgiving.

I am coming back to this thread since yesterday I found out that the E Nuts I bought make my spindle vibrate too much, so it seems not to be balanced right. I bought a cheap brand called QWORK and was using them for a while now, but yesterday I heard somehow over the dust extractor and my ear protection a strange noise. So I just turned on the spindle and there it was this sound. I switched to the nut that came with my CNC and the noise was gone.

So, what is a GOOD brand of E Nuts ? I see Amana sells one but it is 4 times as expensive and there is a review saying it was not centered as well (I guess Amana brands then but do not build them).

I will try buying different brands (UXcell is the only one I know form Amazon offerings), so will see. But any suggestion, appreciated.

Something that might be worth mentioning is to make sure you are inserting the collets correctly into the collet nut. I know this might sound stupid, but I was actually inserting the collets incorrectly when I first got started in CNC milling. I'm not certain that's the case here, but I figure it's worth mentioning because no one told me when I started.

I'm using inexpensive collets in my machine that have worked quite well for years after I figured this out:

You need to snap the empty collet into the collet nut so that it is secure before you insert your endmill and attach it all to your spindle. If you don't snap the collet into the collet nut and, instead, just tighten the nut down around the collet after you install the bit into it, it will be off-centered and can cause this issue.

Check out this video at exactly 1:00 in:

[savannahdan]

I found one of my chucks was poorly made and bought a replacement chuck from this outfit: www.precisebits.com/gateways/ColletsNutsHome.htm. Nicely made. I also have a set of the cheap collets, bought elsewhere, which offers quite a few sizes and haven't really had any significant problem with them. You do need to clean the chuck and collet between cuts. They'll get sawdust caught inside and I use an old toothbrush. Precise Bits also sells a collet cleaning kit. I have to admit that I haven't used mine in quite some time.

[pedro]

Thanks Both. It is not the chuck that seems to be the offender, it is the nut. I know I need to snap it in, and I do so, but in order to avoid doing it every time I change the collet, I want to have one nut per collet, so it is faster. Thanks for the info, will research further.