School new to CNC questions about what to purchase

[mikebalt]

We are a public school with a maker space want to add CNC. We have 0 CNC experience. I like what I have read about Axiom and want to get some advice on if you think this is the right path to gol

Looking at the Axiom AutoRoute Iconic-4 and not the pro as we don't have 220V.  I have the 2x2 model with AODI - Axiom Overarm Dust System, Axiom Hold Down Clamps - Pair x 3, 
Axiom 3pc CNC Starter Bit Set for Iconic 1/4 shank by Amana Tool, 
ABS201 - Axiom 3pc CNC Starter Bit Set for Iconic 1/4 shank by Amana Tool

ABS203 - Axiom 2pc CNC Carving Bit Set for Iconic 1/4 shank by Amana Tool
ABS207 - Axiom 3pc CNC Inlay Bit Set by Amana Tool
ABS205 - Axiom 2pc CNC Sign-making Bit Set for Iconic 1/4" shank by Amana Tool
ABS901 - Axiom 9pc W/Spektra Coating CNC Bit Set For ICONIC Series by Amana Tool


Axiom VCarve Desktop v11.x
Stand

Hard to say what we will be doing as we are new but I hope to do things like boxes, coasters, signs, some 3d modeling, things that students can create and make.

Any recommendations on anything else we would need, or not need?

We will not cut plastic or acrylic as we have a laser cutter for that.

[dadealeus]

Jan 12, 2023 18:52:00 GMT -5 mikebalt said:

Looking at the Axiom AutoRoute Iconic-4 and not the pro as we don't have 220V.

Hi, Mike! Welcome to the forums and I commend your goal of getting a CNC machine into your school.

First off, I'd like to say that 220v power is not a full requirement for the pro series. I use mine without any issues with a step-up converter that converts my 110v/15a to 220v/7a. Unless you're pushing the machine to its limit, you're not going to exceed that power draw (in my experience). So, if budget permits, I'd say not to rule out a pro machine if you're looking at a larger footprint.

To that point, like many things, the only regret I really ever hear from people is that they didn't buy a large enough machine (meaning the working area). I would go as big of a working area as your budget allows for because this will allow you to make better use of your materials and will allow for larger projects (or batch jobs of smaller projects). For example, if you were cutting out box parts for your class, you could put a single, larger piece of material on the machine and have it cut many copies of the same shape out of that piece of material.

As for the common items, you may not need to invest in the overhead dust arm. It's very well built and sturdy, but it's rigid and (in my opinion) is total overkill. If you're planning on moving the machine around often, it may be a good choice. However, if you have a relatively permanent home, look into a tool retractor that you can mount to the ceiling above the machine and hang the dust hose from that.

Something like this:

tinyurl.com/23cmvb3d (This is an Amazon link, so it might get blocked)

It will keep the hose pulled out of the way without any issues and is literally 1/10th the price of the arm.

As for bits, frankly, you're going to likely want to get used to using bits you can purchase from Amazon. With students who are inexperienced with CNC mills, you're going to be breaking bits left and right. Buy cheap from Amazon for your common cutters (like your 1/8" or 1/4" flat cutters). They will likely be ruined from running it into a clamp, or snapping it off long before they would dull. Save your budget for specialty cutters that you will take extra care with when using (like bull-nosed or chamfer bits).

Finally, as for software, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend a feed/speed calculator of some sort. When I was new to CNC milling, I just winged it and felt I was doing alright. I burned up a few bits or snapped some off, but I felt I was doing pretty well with my feeds and speeds. A couple of years later, I decided to try out the G-Wizard Feeds and Speeds calculator on a lark (they had a free trial). I can not stress to you how much faster and cleaner my cuts became and how much money I've saved on bits that I was burning up or breaking off through trial and error.

You basically select your material, describe your cutting tool, and it gives you a great place to start in terms of proper chipload, etc. It takes a ton of the guesswork out and will make the process of learning CNC milling much more enjoyable. -and just to be clear, I have zero affiliation with that software - it just made that big of a difference for me. Here's a link to the software I purchased:

www.cnccookbook.com/g-wizard-feeds-speeds-calculator-mill/

I'd forgo the overhead dust arm for the retractor option and use the money saved to purchase a feeds and speeds program. G-Wizard has a lifetime license for around $200 or so.

Finally, VCarve is a great starter software and should serve you well. Once you're a bit more familiar with the process, you may want to check out something like Fusion 360 for more complicated, 3D cuts, but that's entirely optional, of course.

That's about all I can think of, but I'm certain others will be able to chime in with anything I've missed!

I hope that helps!

PS: I purchased my first Axiom machine back in 2017 or so and it's still running great. They are very well-built machines with only a single recent complaint people have voiced regarding the VFD dial (the knob that you turn to set the spindle RPM). The version I bought has zero issues, but some of the new controllers are a bit finicky. You may want to call Axiom to check on the current model they are using (I know they were aware of this problem).

[grossmsj]

I'll second what dadealeus said about buying expensive bits up front. Most bits you buy will get trashed before they dull. Same goes for the aluminum clamps. They will get hit by bits and either torn up or trash a bit (likely both). You could easily make a bunch of wood hold downs.

I love my Axiom AR6. It is a great machine. But you might also want to be aware of the I2R (Imagination to Reality) machines. They are mechanically very, very similar to the Axiom line, but have a different motion controller system. Axiom's RichAuto controller keeps you away from the nitty gritty of motion control. It's very simple to use. So it's great for a space where users just plug in their USB drives and hit start. The I2R motion controller is an attached PC that lets you see everything that is going on. If you wanted to teach people something about how CNC works, it might be a better tool for that. I wasn't aware of this distinction when I bought my Axiom. I don't know if I would have done anything differently, looking back, but I definitely would have liked to know about this as an option.

I'd advise you consider Vectric Aspire for a maker's space, instead of VCarve. It just has more versatility.

What are you doing for dust control?

[mikebalt]

again excuse my ignorance but dust control is not something we have considered - I dont know if a shop vac with filters is adequate - if not recommendations?

[grossmsj]

There will be many times when you are generating huge amounts of wood debris when you are milling something.

One choice is to just let the machine spew stuff into the area and pile up on the piece you are doing. It is a mess at a minimum, but hazardous under some circumstances.

You could stand by with a shop vac, but that isn't a good idea. The end of the shop vac hose would need to be close to the job, and the last thing you want to teach people is putting stuff near the cutting area. A shop vac won't be strong enough to collect chips generally. You need at least 300 CFM, but twice that is better.

I have a Felder RL160 dust collector that sends 6" vacuum lines to my machines, including the Axiom. It is very good at collecting chips, more than necessary really. It is also very loud so it's in another sealed off part of the shop. A cyclone system would do the same thing. Also loud. Those types of collection systems would use the dust boom arm you have in your list of materials.

I think the ideal dust collection system would be a Harvey Gyro Air G700. They are quiet and have a VFD to dial vacuum up or down. But they are ~$2500. Note the Gyro Air and the other larger dust collection systems will require 220V

You could also get a much cheaper single machine unit from a place like Grizzly or one of these (https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/personal-shops/1-5-hp-mini-gorilla-cyclone-dust-collector). These are cheaper, but they will be loud.

Personally, I have a real thing about a shop full of dust. It's just bad for your health. CNC dust is more like chips, so it might not be as bad as other forms of dust, but you need to consider your control system.

[dadealeus]

Jan 14, 2023 7:33:49 GMT -5 mikebalt said:

again excuse my ignorance but dust control is not something we have considered - I dont know if a shop vac with filters is adequate - if not recommendations?

-and I can second grossmsj 's points about dust collection. I had assumed that this was already in place in your shop.

I used a relatively inexpensive dust collection system from Shop Fox when I started. This is a link to the exact one I purchased:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001R23SS6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

However, the old adage of "you get what you pay for" certainly applied here. The dust collector is VERY impressive in terms of power. However, it's incredibly loud and the filter/collection bag do not seal well, so it leaks dust into the air. It certainly picks up the large chips, but fine dust spewed everywhere each time I ran it and was horrible to be breathing in on a constant basis.

So, I purchased a second unit from Jet:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004T86NAK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's certainly more expensive, but that unit does not leak, although it is quite a bit weaker in terms of airflow. The rated CFM of both units are fairly similar, but this unit feels like it comes in quite a bit lower in power. It's still loud, but it seals well.

For the noise, I ended up purchasing a variable transformer so that I can dial in the speed of the fan for smaller projects. These things are awesome! Relatively inexpensive and can be used for many purposes. I bought a second one that I hook up to an infrared heater so that I can dial in the temperature I want it at:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JV8ZCG8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Additionally, I purchased a dust separator to help my system out. These basically collect all the large debris into an easily emptiable container and saves the filter/bag system on the vacuum for the tiny debris that's left over. This prevents you from having to constantly change out that plastic bag - which is not a super easy process:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08W1H2XY6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That being said, I would not purchase that particular dust separator again - it's very overpriced for what you get. I'd go with something like the Dust Deputy:

www.amazon.com/s?k=dust+deputy&sprefix=dust+dep%2Caps%2C108&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_8

Lastly, you could also forgo the filter system entirely and just use the dust collection fan to blow the dust out a hole in the wall of your shop. I actually did this for a while at a leased property before I purchased the non-leaking system. The only reason I stopped was because I moved to a new lease that wouldn't let me put a hole in the wall! However, I was sure to use a separator so that only the fine dust was blown outside.

You could even just put a box fan in a window on one side of the shop and open a window on the other side to pull clean air in and dusty air out and manually clean up the machine; anything is better than nothing.

Whatever you choose to do, know that these machines will produce a lot of fine dust. Even when cutting properly (where you're cutting large chips away from your material), you're still inevitably going to recut some of those chips into smaller and smaller pieces during a cut job - creating fine dust that will settle many 10s of feet away from your machine over time. It's not healthy to breathe and a dust handling system of some sort should be implemented

[mikebalt]

Jan 14, 2023 6:38:54 GMT -5 grossmsj said:

 But you might also want to be aware of the I2R (Imagination to Reality) machines. They are mechanically very, very similar to the Axiom line, but have a different motion controller system. Axiom's RichAuto controller keeps you away from the nitty gritty of motion control. It's very simple to use. So it's great for a space where users just plug in their USB drives and hit start. The I2R motion controller is an attached PC that lets you see everything that is going on. If you wanted to teach people something about how CNC works, it might be a better tool for that. I wasn't aware of this distinction when I bought my Axiom. I don't know if I would have done anything differently, looking back, but I definitely would have liked to know about this as an option.

I'd advise you consider Vectric Aspire for a maker's space, instead of VCarve. It just has more versatility.

What are you doing for dust control?


I look at these I2R and I like that computer controller better for the reason you said - the machines look identical and specs are similar - is there any advantage to Axiom over them?  Plus they are a bit cheaper on the accessories as they offer 15% off when you purchase them with the machine.

[joeblow]

Jan 15, 2023 15:33:53 GMT -5 mikebalt said:

Jan 14, 2023 6:38:54 GMT -5 grossmsj said:

I look at these I2R and I like that computer controller better for the reason you said - the machines look identical and specs are similar - is there any advantage to Axiom over them?  Plus they are a bit cheaper on the accessories as they offer 15% off when you purchase them with the machine.

Axiom is involved with the i2R CNC.  Here is an article dating back to November 2018.

link 

[grossmsj]

Jan 15, 2023 15:33:53 GMT -5 mikebalt said:

Jan 14, 2023 6:38:54 GMT -5 grossmsj said:

- the machines look identical and specs are similar - is there any advantage to Axiom over them?  Plus they are a bit cheaper on the accessories as they offer 15% off when you purchase them with the machine.

Axiom service and support is quite good. They don't always answer emails, but they always address important issues and know their equipment and common user errors well. I'd check with I2R and find out how support will be provided. It might be through Axiom for all I know. If that's the case and you want to trade simplicity of the RichAuto controller for information and control of the uCCnC controller, I can't see a disadvantage.

Some of the accessories for the I2R are better than Axioms from what I can tell. For example, you can get a 15W laser on the I2R but only 4.4W on Axiom. I BELIEVE (but don't know), the uCCNC board allows for pulse width modulation, which would give better control of laser power 'on the fly'. With the RichAuto control the laser is on or off, and you control how much 'burn' you get by cut speed.

I'd check with I2R on the phone to go over some of these potentially important differences. In particular, I'd want to know what I'm giving up on the 110V machine. To me, that's a bigger deal than Axiom vs I2R.

[savannahdan]

Looks like you've received some excellent advice and some of it includes links for products.  I think you're first steps are to develop a product list for your cnc system and then tweak it to your budget.   Here's what I'd have on that list (others can contribute things I've missed);

CNC - I have the Pro 8 with water cooled spindle, Axiom table and toolboxes.  You'll need some anti-freeze (I use Marine Anti-freeze) particularly if you're in an area prone to freezes.  My first system had a router that worked fine.

Dust Collection system - collector, Dust Genie, hose, grounding wires, and hanging system (I made mine out of plywood scraps.)

Software - Vectric - be sure to do the Educational Sign Up so that you can install the software on multiple computers, etc.  www.vectric.com/support/educational-license

CNC bits - End Mills, Ball Nose, V-Bits, flattening or fly cut

Collets & Nuts - You're system should be okay for starting out but you'll need replacements at some point.  I like Preicse Bits www.precisebits.com/gateways/ColletsNutsHome.htm

Clamps - There are plenty of designs that folks have shared their files for on the Vectric Forum.  I mainly use the painters tape & super glue method.  

Wood, wood, wood and maybe some other materials you want to cut.  

Wood glue and other fastening items to assemble the projects.

I'm one of these guys that has experienced a CNC fire so I strongly encourage you to make sure the system is grounded properly and that you have fire extinguishers handy.  I had a project that was being cut, walked out of the shop into the house proper and my wife heard a diffrent sound coming from the CNC.  I ran back into the shop to see it was on fire.  I got it out quickly, very little damage, lots of stink and I learned a lesson.  I thought it was grounded but after reviewing everything I realized it needed extra.  

There are plenty of videos to help with using the system.  I bought Prof. Henry's The Newbie's Guide to CNC Routing and found it an easy and informative read.  You could probably use it to develop a guide on how to use the CNC and software.  

Good luck and I know the kids will appreciate having such a system.