AR16 Elite Brand New Just Arrived, BUT Won't Start

[jacqdesign]

First of all, I would like to give a little backstory to help explain my frustration...


My husband and I took the plunge and bought the big one for us to start getting some products made for our customers. Placed our order 01/22/2018, was told we would receive the machine by end of Feb. during the purchase process, but just like so many other, we kept checking and was told of the continued delay. Finally, we received our AR16 Elite on 05/07/2018!

The problem now is, the machine won't start. We checked the power cord and it carries power from the wall plug all the way to the machine, but it just stops there. Nothing inside the table housing got powered on. 

We tested the red E-stop switches on both the handheld controller and the unit itself, no response.

We have not yet checked the fuses, but considering we have never powered up the machine and it should have never been turned on during transport, we did not think blown fuse would be our issue here. But we could be wrong~

We have checked all the connections that we can see and reach, also no success. 

Even worse though, while we are trying to figure out what might be the problem for the machine not powering on, we noticed damages on the motor cover, which may also explain the bent leveling leg on one side of the table assembly.

We are glad that the machine had finally arrived, but was not expecting to have to troubleshoot just to get this thing started on day one... especially for a $14,000 machine. 

Maybe someone else has similar experience on here that could help. I sent an email to the Axiom sales and support email, hoping someone will get back to us soon. But thought I would also reach out to the awesome people on here who have way more experience than us with the Axiom machines to chime in while I wait.

Thanks in advance for your help! 


Sincerely,
Jacq


Here are some photos of the damaged motor cover, do you think this will affect the precision of the machine? We are all the way out here in Arizona, not sure how we can get someone to provide support or repair...

Damaged corner of the motor housing cover.


You can see the cover tiling forward.


I think the damage to the back of the cover caused this warping.




Here's the bent leveling leg when the machine arrived. We unscrewed it so we can use the casters.

[stevem]

When you turn the green power switch to on, is there a green lite or not?

[stevem]

As for the cover and leg, just give Chad a cal and they will replace those bent parts.

[ricphoto]

Sorry for your problems...unfortunately you are not alone.

No way I'd settle for or accept a $14k machine with ANY damage...no telling what else may have been damaged that might not show up till later and would probably be disputed because it wasn't readily apparent.

Supposedly these are "tested" before leaving the company but as I (and many others) found out they really aren't...my Z axis coupler was missing a set screw and wouldn't raise or lower...how could you "test" or inspect a machine and have something that obvious (or your power problem) missed...

I'd call and demand an immediate no charge pick-up and replacement NOT a random assortment of only the parts that you can see are damaged...as heavy as these beasts are they are actually pretty delicate and rely on the ability to be accurate to .002 to do the job they are intended for (the ability that you paid $14k for)...a drop hard enough to bend that 3/4" leveler screw (which you will need) or bend the motor housing has to have consequences beyond what you can see...especially when you can't start, run or test the actual functions. Replacing the parts (which they send by the slowest cheapest means possible) will have you spending even more weeks frustrated and doing the work that they should have done in the first place...

Just like your delays be prepared for a lot of weak, general excuses ("It must have been the shipper" (not our packing) "we sell so many machines we can't possibly check everything"...even though that's part of their sales pitch etc) and blame to be passed...

They let lots of stuff slip through...read the forums...I believe they count on the fact that these are so big and hard to ship/return and cow buyers into accepting problems and fixing them themselves...

You paid for a new "Professional" machine that should arrive in pristine condition and work flawlessly...Demand that that's what they deliver

[stevem]

I would be truly amazed if they were to actually replace the entire machine. Axiom is simply a distributor not the manufacturer. They do however work directly with the company that makes the machines, but that's about it.
As for taking the machine out of there boxing and actually setting them up, then re boxing them and shipping them out is hard to believe.

I really like my Axiom machine, but the fact that they don't monitor their own site on a daily basis says something to their customers. It just seems that they are trying to run their business so lean, there isn't enough help to get everything done in a timely manner.

If you call Chad and talk with him, you can usually get something done quickly.

[garylyb]

May 10, 2018 18:40:33 GMT -5 stevem said:

I really like my Axiom machine, but the fact that they don't monitor their own site on a daily basis says something to their customers. It just seems that they are trying to run their business so lean, there isn't enough help to get everything done in a timely manner.

Not monitoring this forum is just bad management. It reflects poorly on Axiom.

I've had my AR8 for about a year and a half, and it's been fine, but this would have me thinking twice about buying one.

[ricphoto]

May 10, 2018 18:40:33 GMT -5 stevem said:

I would be truly amazed if they were to actually replace the entire machine. Axiom is simply a distributor not the manufacturer. They do however work directly with the company that makes the machines, but that's about it.
As for taking the machine out of there boxing and actually setting them up, then re boxing them and shipping them out is hard to believe.

"Simply the distributor..."

I'm sorry but that's pretty lame...they sell the machine branded with their name on it, they profit from the machine sales, they claim to check out/test the machines and then repackage and send them on to the purchaser...by virtue of accepting the orders for machines they sell branded with their name they assume liability for the machine being fit for the intended purpose...If there is a problem with the manufacturer then that's their problem not ours.

Yes, that liability should extend to arranging the repacking and return of the machine when it's obviously not fit for the intended purpose...why should someone pay for a machine that was not as advertised? why should the purchaser assume the task of making the machine right...They already fulfilled their part of the contract by paying...Axiom needs to fulfill their part of the contract by delivering a machine that truly has been checked out/tested and functions as promised or packing/picking up the dead one and either refunding their purchase price or replacing it with one that functions and hasn't been trashed due to their packaging and their choice of shippers.

Hopefully they paid with a credit card and can leverage that by putting a hold on the funds until axiom does everything needed to make this right...The onus is NOT on the buyer...it's on the seller (no matter what you call them)

Nothing personal Steve but please don't be an apologist for them...I know you always stick up for them but think about that...How many times have you had to get on here and plead their case for them? Dozens? How many times have they gotten on and explained / defended themselves?

[savannahdan]

Surely that damage was done in shipping. It is very significant and probably has caused something damage to the controller/power supply and possibly to the coolant system. I'm getting way too many packages delivered by UPS and FedEx that have significant damage to the boxes. Just received a 3 wheel bike for my wife a couple of days ago and it looks like someone was Po'd about something. Interesting that the FedEx guy left it on the front porch without knocking or ringing the doorbell. My wife, I and one of our daughters was just inside the house no more than 15 feet away. He knew about the damage because he put on the front porch, damage up which was mostly on the bottom of the box.

[stevem]

ricphoto: I think you may be misunderstanding my comment.
The company that sells Axiom is Wood Wreks Supply in Columbus Ohio. They are the Axiom distributor in the U.S.
The Axiom machine is also sold under the Powermatic label.
Wood Werks may possibly be a partner in the Axiom company. Buy you are rite in saying they should be checking out these machines before shipping them to the buyer. We all know that just isn't happening.
When I got my machine, I know it had not been checked out before I got it. There is no way they would have taken everything out of the boxes, tested it and then re packaged it all back up.
I actually agree with what you are saying about them being responsible for what they sell, but like others have said, the shipping company is responsible for that sort of damage. It would be wonderful if Axiom to replace the machine. I would want the same thing if were to happen to me.
I am not really sticking up for them at all. I am just trying to be realistic. If you read some of my posts, I have complained many times and actually suggested looking other company sites that offer better info and documentation on the same controller that we are using.
I had some damage on my machine, but a phone call to Chad solved that problem. Yes I had to wait a few more days for the parts to arrive and install them. There was a post where someone got their machine and was missing a set screw on a coupler. There is no way they could have tested that machine. If they had, that would have been caught.
I just wish the company would be more pro active and take responsibility for poor documentation on the products they sell, monitor there web site more often so problems like this are reduced to a minimum.
Weather you spent $5,000 or $14,000 for one of their machine makes no difference. The expectation is it should work when you plug it in and turn it on.

[Axiom Tool Group]

Ok, theres a lot going on here...

So to answer many of the questions.

Axiom is not a distributor only....we are the manufacturer. We produce everything in our facilities in Taiwan and warehouse those machines and accessories in Columbus, Ohio. Where we share the warehouse with Wood Werks Supply, due to shared company ownership. Wood Werks however is an Axiom Dealer and allows us to showcase the machines in their showroom space.

The Forum is monitored, though not daily. It is not intended to be used as a means of contacting the company for technical support as much as sharing information, adivse and files. A phone call or email should be used for direct customer service or technical assistance.

We appreciate the customers that share ideas and assist one another on the forum, which makes much of our jobs here easier as we are often too busy testing machines and assisting other customers who have called or emailed.

That said, there are several users of the forum that do not have machines....who regularly provide information which may be misleading or unrepresentative of the facts. In an effort to look out for users that are using Axiom machines, those users may be blocked.


Regarding ANY machine purchased either directly or through a dealer... ALL machines are carefully tested before shipping. Missing set screws on a Z axis coupling are unfortunately possible due to the fact that the coupling is both removed before shipment and then reinstalled on site. A missing set screw should be noted during that initial install by the customer, where it would most likely be found in the packaging.

Machines are carefully labeled on all sides with notices to inspect the packages for ANY sign of damage before signing to accept delivery.

When machines are signed for, and no notations are made regarding damages to the packaging...the shipping companies will not cover those damages. We take pictures of all machines as they sit on the dock so there is documented evidence of the condition of the machine and packaging before shipment.

The machine shown above in this thread, was unfortunately signed for with the bill marked that it arrived in perfect condition. While the damages are clearly the shipping companies fault, in this case something was sat on top of the machine, crushing the packaging, IT is nearly impossible to get them to pay for damages in these cases.

The damage is most definitely cosmetic, however, the electrical supply and operation of the machine will need to be tested.

These machines do have to be powered correctly in order to function...in the large majority of cases, they are in fact not being supplied the correct voltage.

With this machine, a replacement leveling foot has been shipped, a new cover plate has been ordered (all at Axioms expense, even though the customer signed a clear bill). As for it not turning on. We are in touch with the customer to work this out, as testing is showing that as suspected the power (supply side) appears to be incorrectly wired.

[jacqdesign]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry I have not gone back up here sooner to give an update on our AR16 Elite.

As everyone suggested, Chad followed up and called us with extremely helpful troubleshooting and very patient with us. The power source issue, was actually our fault, after testing the L1 to ground and the L2 to ground showing roughly 120V each as expected, but the L1 to L2 reading was only 0 instead of the 240 volts that was expected.

It was a simple solution, we replaced our single pole breaker with a double pole breaker, and the machine turned on without issues! YAY!

We received the replacement leveling foot and it has been put onto our machine and we were able to level the machine without issues. Axiom team responded and shipped our replacement leg very promptly, so we are very happy with that.

We appreciate Axiom orderd a new cover plate for us, I am still really concerned about how that would have affected the machine, we will only be able to tell after we test it.


As for the damaged package. We have never ordered anything this large before, plus it is for our home garage use, without a shipping dock and had to rent a $550 forklift to move it 15 ft from the truck to our garage. It is a running joke now for us, that it was the most expensive 15 feet we have ever spent. With all that excitement, and we did not realize we have to open the package while the shipper is there to unbox and inspect every detail to note damages. Plus, the truck was parked in our neighborhood street blocking the whole street. Perhaps the info about inspection upon delivery needs to be communicated to the customer more clearly before shipment, especially if that is so important to help get the shipping company to pay for damages.

We were not contacted by Axiom before the machine was shipped from Ohio, like most vendors would with tracking number and expected delivery date. We could have been out of town/overseas for weeks for all I know and the machine would have sat with the shipping company for a long time. So, I think it would be amazing if Axiom could do a better job with shipping communications. I know it is stressful with all the delays on shipment on machines, but I think customers would appreciate better communication on the items they have ordered.

We looked at the video footage we took again on the packaging, we could not tell which are the "labeling" for inspection, and the cardboards are long gone now. But I would recommend, put larger stickers on there for future reference, because all we saw and thought we saw were shipping labels for the shipping company to know about the package, not notes for us.

I am attaching screenshots of the video I took during the process of us moving the machine package from the truck to our garage, so you can see the damage the shipping company had done. We thought it was a little strange, that the cover plate was peaking out the box, but we have seen poor packaging for shipping before, and did not think anything of it. So, perhaps, we should have learned to be more careful next time when we order items and make the delivery man wait while we inspect packages we receive from now on.

Ordering from Axiom is very special for me, I was excited to have found out that the machines were assembled in Taiwan, where I am originally from, and was manufactured by a company in Columbus, Ohio, where I went to CCAD for college and my first home in the United States. Hoping the machine can help us jump-start new business opportunities, and with all that excitement and applying for my first business loan is a bit overwhelming. So I apologize for not being vigilant on inspection and knowing all the things I probably should have known if I were an experienced maker.

Never the less, we are extremely excited to have received the machine and we think it will all work out because we looked long and hard and wanted to start this new business venture right and get the best machine that we can afford. It is our FIRST CNC machine and we know we will be putting many hours on this beauty.


Here are the screenshots from our unload process for your references. 

[stevem]

Glad to hear everything is finally working out for you.
As I have said several times, Chad is a good guy and is always willing to help. Not that I am sticking up for the company, but so far they have always been fair with me.
Have fun and start cutting stuff.

[redwood]

When my unit was shipped to me, over 2 years ago, the shipper placed my container in my garage. No forklift needed for me.

[BigMoose]

May 19, 2018 2:14:43 GMT -5 redwood said:

When my unit was shipped to me, over 2 years ago, the shipper placed my container in my garage. No forklift needed for me.

Due to the size of the AR16 lift gate service is not available so you need a forklift to unload it. 

[johnb]

"THE BEAST" HAS ARRIVED AND IS NOW ON THE FLOOR!

I'm posting this to possibly aid anyone else who's faced with setting it up "alone". Note that, at NO TIME was it ever necessary to "get under" anything that was jacked up or otherwise elevated. This is an important safety consideration. 

My AR16 Elite arrived last week. It spent one night in my local welding shop since that's where the "Forklift" lives (the forklift being a big Bobcat with 5' forks). His trailer was unavailable due to the fact that it was loaded with cattle feed and parked 20 miles away (ya gotta love rural living), so all we could do was unload it from the SAIA truck, pull off the box to inspect it, and lock it up until the next day. After putting the box back around it, the whole thing (Bobcat included) made the last 3 miles of the trip to my shop.

Getting it off the pallet was gonna take more time than either the welder or I wanted to spend (think $$ here), so it was up to me to get it on the floor. Manual lifting was out of the question...it weighs > 1,300# and I don't know 4 people who can lift 300 lbs each...so here's what I did:

Tools required:
1500 lb ATV/Motorcycle/Mower lift with two "forks" (a low profile floor jack would work, but this is far more stable and I already owned it)
1" open end wrench (for the levelling screws)
Sawzall with bi-metal blade (due to nails in pallet)
5 lb hammer and wrecking bar
2 x 12, 2 x 6, 2 x 4, and 1 x 4 cribbing and a piece of 3" x 3" (to straddle the forks of the lift)

Process:
Unbolt CNC from pallet

It is now resting on 3 horizontal "beams" nailed to the top of the solid-decked pallet (which also has 3 horizontal beams nailed to the bottom of the pallet to allow for lift forks)

Using the Sawzall, I cut off both ends of the pallet (decking and longitudinal joists) flush with the outside edge of the two outer beams.
This gave me room to get my lifting jack under the end beams of the CNC. The 3" x 3" allowed me to lift the beams without contacting the bottoms of the end panels (which extend lower than the beams).
In retrospect, I could have removed the end panel on the "computer end" of the CNC at this point, since I did it later anyway.

In several repeated steps, I lifted one end and then the other, cribbing as I went with the levelling feet retracted (to just below the level of the wheels) to minimize the possibility of bending them.
The cribbing needs to provide enough clearance from each end of the pallet to allow its removal, so the feet are pretty close to the edge of the cribbing at this point.

Once I had it high enough for the (fully retracted) center levelling feet to clear the 2 x 4 that was nailed on top of the center upper beam of the pallet (between the two longitudinal beams of the CNC), I slid the pallet out.
(Note that you need to plan FIRST where you're going with the pallet in order to have this all happen in a spot where you have room to slide the pallet (flat) from under the machine and out the door)

Once the pallet was removed, I raised each end slightly and centered the cribbing under the levelling feet on each end (no cribbing was used on the center levelling feet).

I then jacked up one end at a time and removed cribbing "one layer at a time" from each end in order to keep the load close to level. The bottom two layers of cribbing were 2 x 12 headers with 1/2" of plywood sandwiched between, so I was never "out of level" by more than about 5".

As I neared the floor, it became evident that, even with the levelling feet fully extended, I would not be able to get the jack out from under the machine with the feet on the floor, so I did the following:
I substituted a 2 x 4 for the 3 x 3 across the forks of the lift.
I ran the levelling feet out > 5" (with the weight held by the lift while doing so)
I lowered each end so that the levelling feet were sitting on 1 x 4s
This allowed me to slide the jack out from under the 2 x 4 and clear of the machine.

I then went around and around the machine, screwing each levelling foot back into the leg of the machine in increments of about 3/8" at a time until the wheels were all on the floor.
Once the wheels were on the floor, I could then pull out the 1 x 4s and roll the machine to where it needs to be.

I will extend the levelling feet to get the weight off the wheels once my electrician has finished wiring the shop.

In retrospect, I could have jacked the thing up one end at a time and put a block of ice under the wheels/levelling jacks on each corner and just waited for it to melt, but that would have taken longer and created a mess.

More on setup will come in a following post.

[johnb]

MORE ON "THE BEAST" - DUST COLLECTION

The following assumes that X0,Y0 is at the near bottom left of the table when standing in front of the toolbox.

I went ahead and sprang for the overarm dust collection. This was a worthwhile purchase (since my machine will "reside" in the "open center" part of my shop where the ceiling height slopes upward to the center from a minimum height of 17'). Anything else would have had to hang (a long way) from the ceiling and would have been inelegant and less effective.

There are no instructions for its installation, beyond the video that can be reached on the main Axiom website. Note that, with an AR16, you will NOT be positioning the base of the overarm tubing on the corner of the table (as shown in the video), rather (in order for the tube to be centered on the X axis), the T-Screws/Nuts will go in the 9th & 10th slots (counting from the left when at the "rear" (maximum Y) end of the machine.) Slide the base so that the screws are at the far left of the elongated slots in the base and 1/2 of the 8th slot is revealed. This places the hose connection between the green on/off switch and the edge of one of the two controller box exhaust fans.

Bear in mind that, in order to "tile" any project that is overly long, you'll likely need to remove the overarm collector if the narrow dimension is much wider than 1/2 of the potential X width of the machine. Likewise, you couldn't slide a whole 4' x 8' sheet of material through and cut parts out of different portions of the sheet in a nested cutout file. Presuming that none of your cuts would be stopped "part way", the easiest thing would be to reverse the sheet in the machine to cut the "other end". You'l have to plan your cuts accordingly.

Since I bought the laser and the dust boot base needs to be removed in order to use it, I bypassed the included hose clamp (that goes on the overarm tube) in favor of one that works like a "spring clamp" in order to not have to climb up on the table and unscrew the hose clamp. At the "other end" of the tube, I connected the hose from the machine with a thumb screw type clamp as well.

Fun Fact: A dropped T-Nut can easily bounce and roll at least 5' from the point of its initial contact with a clean, slick trowelled concrete shop floor. There may be something to be said for having a layer of sawdust on the floor. Benign neglect is not always a bad thing.

[johnb]

"THE BEAST" - MORE ON SETUP

Laser - I never did figure out how to open the wire chains to lay in the wiring harness, so it took a few hours of "finagling" to snake it through across the gantry, down the gantry leg, through the tube below, into the wire chain below the table, around the 180 degree turn and back in to the controller box. I was so happy to get this accomplished that I put the gantry cover back on before wiring up the LED light (Sigh).

Skirting - the panels that block in the base of the unit are not factory installed (except for the two ends). While they sure look nice, I'm not looking forward to removing one to do maintenance on the main screw beneath the table. None of them went easily onto the "keyhole" slots in the attachment points (four on each panel). The keyhole ain't that much bigger than the screw head (which is essentially the same diameter as the hole through the panel through which you tighten the screw). I'm thinking I may replace those screws with longer ones with a bigger pan head and a fiber washer and just poke them in from outside and screw the panels in that way. The (unplugged) holes look a little strange anyway. Once one of the upper screws is stabbed into the hole and screwed in partway, it won't be that hard to use it to pivot the panel and get the next one into the screw holes from outside. (NOTE TO AXIOM HERE - Make the keyholes bigger, the slot a little longer, and punch them a little lower in the "box" on the backside of the panel to make up for the longer slot.)

When wiring up the machine, I decided to temporarily remove the end panel beneath the drawer that contains the controller and servo motor drives in order to run the cable to the HUST controller through the slot (between panel and drawer) with the "molded on plastic block" (containing maybe a ferrite coil?) on the outside of the slot so as to provide strain relief for the little oblong screw-in plug on that end of the HUST cable. It was not an easy task to get that one back on either.