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Post by arsystems on Mar 5, 2018 9:39:53 GMT -5
Just and update guys - I emailed Axiom and left a voicemail.. neither was returned its been over a week now. So they clearly have absolutely no interest in discussing anything regarding fusion.
But I am happy to report, with no help from them, that the Fusion RS274 post seems to be working properly. I hope you all have the same luck.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 21:46:05 GMT -5
I have been playing with the speeds a little, haven't messed with the fast speed again. But if advertised is 200 and cutting 185.. there shouldn't be any problems... right? It depends on the bit, axial and radial depths of cut, the numbers of flutes and the material you're cutting, and the method of clamping.
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Post by tinkirfx on Mar 8, 2018 14:07:57 GMT -5
I just ran a test on my AR8 with the rs274 post and it ran great with no issues. I’m gonna keep testing, but this gives me great confidence in doing more in fusion.
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Post by renaissance1415 on Mar 13, 2018 14:09:26 GMT -5
FWIW: I'm assuming most of this thread revolves around using, cutting aluminum. I bought an an AR-8 Elite and my questions for both Tod and Chad were about cutting aluminum since them Elite was even beefier and was servo controlled. They made it very clear that Axioms were wood, plastic only and were in no way designed or meant for metal machining. I was very disappointed and still think I will try it at some point. I'm also concerned about 3D software as I had hoped to design and cut guitar necks and bodies. Vcarve pro vs aspire vs fusion 360. I was led to believe that vcarve pro would do it. It might cut the necks if the 3D file is imported, but I don't believe it can design the changing radius taper of a neck. I'm not happy with having to spend the additional $1,300 for aspire or the $300 per year (forever) for fusion.
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Post by stevem on Mar 13, 2018 14:19:52 GMT -5
V Carve Pro can run 3d files, but cannot create them like Aspire. That is why Aspire's cost is what it is. Once yon download a 3d file to Vcarve you car resize it, but not make major changes to it. There are many things Vcarve can do, you may need to play with it somewhat to see if you can make it do what you want it to. I would suggest you get on the Vectric forum and pose the questions there and see what those very knowledgeable folks can do for you.
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Post by renaissance1415 on Mar 13, 2018 15:02:54 GMT -5
I've been following a number of threads on this. From what I have learned Aspire feels old and outdated compared to Fusion 360 to many. That being said that is a perspective based on their experience, needs and expectations. Most on here have years of CAD CAM experience and work at a much higher level than I will get to any time soon. I want to get something that can do real 3D vs 2.5D I'm just cannot get comfortable that Aspire is the best choice.
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Post by gerry on Mar 13, 2018 15:42:07 GMT -5
Google 'Aspire Guitar Design' and you'll find lots of examples and info. YouTube Guitar Design with Aspire The Aspire trial version is free, and all features work. You just can't cut anything except some examples. But, your design matches your screen preview, exactly. One of the guys in our WoodCraft CNC group is a student and gets a deal on Rhino 3D. It's very expensive. He's given a few demos on designing guitars with it (his hobby), and I haven't seen any methods that I couldn't easily reproduce in Aspire. I think one of the best features of Vectric is their user community. I've asked lots of questions, and everyone has always been very helpful. They've taught me a lot. I wouldn't hesitate to buy again.
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Post by stevem on Mar 13, 2018 16:36:41 GMT -5
Good software is never cheap! Just like a CNC machine, yo get what you pay for. As for me, I don't think I'll ever need Aspire or any other software of that type. I currently have V Carve 9 PRO, and haven't come close to the capability of what it can do. Everyone's needs are different. Gerry has a good idea about connecting with someone that has Aspire.
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Post by BigMoose on Mar 13, 2018 19:22:26 GMT -5
FWIW: I'm assuming most of this thread revolves around using, cutting aluminum. I bought an an AR-8 Elite and my questions for both Tod and Chad were about cutting aluminum since them Elite was even beefier and was servo controlled. They made it very clear that Axioms were wood, plastic only and were in no way designed or meant for metal machining. I was very disappointed and still think I will try it at some point. I'm also concerned about 3D software as I had hoped to design and cut guitar necks and bodies. Vcarve pro vs aspire vs fusion 360. I was led to believe that vcarve pro would do it. It might cut the necks if the 3D file is imported, but I don't believe it can design the changing radius taper of a neck. I'm not happy with having to spend the additional $1,300 for aspire or the $300 per year (forever) for fusion. Do you make more than $100,000 a year from what you make? If not Fusion 360 is free. How to activate Seems like a lot of people dont know this. It is not easy to find but when you know it helps.
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Post by stevem on Mar 13, 2018 20:22:00 GMT -5
My understanding is Fusion is no linger free! Am I wrong on this?? And no I don't make $100,000 a year.
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Post by ricphoto on Mar 14, 2018 0:25:17 GMT -5
My understanding is Fusion is no linger free! Am I wrong on this?? And no I don't make $100,000 a year. Apparently you are...I followed the link and the terms/conditions seem pretty straight forward for a "start-up"...(and no, seeing how I just got my CNC I can honestly say I haven't made $100k a year with it either ) Now to delve a bit further and find out if I'm going to need it any time soon...saving $1600.00 would justify one hell of a learning curve...(But I'm still having problems remembering where all the buttons are and what they do in V Carve Pro :-)
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Post by BigMoose on Mar 14, 2018 17:18:56 GMT -5
My understanding is Fusion is no linger free! Am I wrong on this?? And no I don't make $100,000 a year. I just put it on a new computer recently (like in the last two weeks) and I pay $0. So unless it changed yesterday it is still free for hobbyist and startups that make less than $100,000. Like I had said it is they dont make it easy to know that but just follow the directions in my link and you will be good to go.
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Post by stevem on Mar 14, 2018 17:55:19 GMT -5
As for V Carve Pro, I am constantly watching the tutorials on the Vectric site. No need to download them and there always available.
I have never tried Fusion 360, because I have all I can handle with V Carve. That program does so much as it is, I don't think I want to take the time to try and learn another program. Possibly sometime in the future!
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Post by BigMoose on Mar 14, 2018 19:23:57 GMT -5
As for V Carve Pro, I am constantly watching the tutorials on the Vectric site. No need to download them and there always available. I have never tried Fusion 360, because I have all I can handle with V Carve. That program does so much as it is, I don't think I want to take the time to try and learn another program. Possibly sometime in the future! I have only used Fusion 360 to make a model and import it to vcarve to cut it out. Due to the lack of a reliable post processor for our CNC's I have not tried to use Fusion to produce the code.
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Post by arsystems on Mar 14, 2018 20:38:50 GMT -5
As for V Carve Pro, I am constantly watching the tutorials on the Vectric site. No need to download them and there always available. I have never tried Fusion 360, because I have all I can handle with V Carve. That program does so much as it is, I don't think I want to take the time to try and learn another program. Possibly sometime in the future! I have only used Fusion 360 to make a model and import it to vcarve to cut it out. Due to the lack of a reliable post processor for our CNC's I have not tried to use Fusion to produce the code. RS 274 post... it works.. I've run it since the day I got my machine.
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Post by garylyb on Mar 15, 2018 13:47:12 GMT -5
How did you learn fusion? I've played with it, but am still overwhelmed by the interface. I know there are videos on the autodesk site: videosbut I haven't spent much time with them.
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Post by arsystems on Mar 15, 2018 17:41:45 GMT -5
Guy on youtube Lars Christensen works for autodesk, does a lot of cool informative videos. Some start with very basic modeling and then get more advanced. I run a dual monitor setup with video on one and follow along on the other. Believe it or not it becomes easier and easier after following along a few times.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 10:27:41 GMT -5
Fusion is a parametric solid modeling program, Aspire is not. To do fancy and controlled work you are far better off with Fusion (free), Solidworks (expensive), or another 3D CAD program and a good CAM package (included in Fusion). Aspire has the same poor and limited CAM as all their other packages, it lacks many features including climb/conventional milling settings that actually work properly besides rest machining and trochoidal toolpaths. Go with the Fusion, when you get over the $100K threshold it will still cost you less then Aspire because you'll be machining so much faster with the better CAM.
As for aluminum, even the Shapoko, which is a much lower end machine, can do aluminum when you use proper settings for feed and speed as well as toolpaths. As a machine gets more rigid, the spindle HP goes up, and the machine weight goes up you can machine soft metals faster, eventually approaching the limit of carbide tools, and perhaps even do some harder metals like softer steels. At this point, you should really be talking about an industrial machine though but I've seen router tables with slow enough spindles and very good rigidity doing steel with limited success.
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Post by garylyb on Mar 19, 2018 23:59:01 GMT -5
Well, I spent some time reading about parametric modeling. That was helpful and gave me a paradigm of what was going on in fusion.
Then I started with the Lars Christensen Fusion 360 Tutorial for Absolute Beginners Part 1,2,3. I spent probably around 12 hours on these videos, not because of what Lars was doing in the videos, but what he didn't cover, like how to move stuff around on the screen, what a capture position does, what all the constraints do, why I kept getting constraint errors etc. Anyway, I got through it all and am getting comfortable with just operating the program.
You should view this video between part 1 and part 2 - Fusion 360 — Beginner! How To Pan, Zoom, Rotate & Navigate, that will show you how to get around on the screen.
I can see why Axiom doesn't want to talk about it, the program is vastly different than vcarve. It looks like fusion can replace aspire after getting over a pretty good sized learning curve. The price is right though.
This started because I just wanted to print some spiffy clock hands on the 3d printer at my local maker space.
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Post by Gary Campbell on Mar 20, 2018 8:13:57 GMT -5
I feel like Cap't Obvious here, but will toss in a couple cents worth. I agree with the above assessments of the 2 programs (Autodesk vs. Vectric) as they are different. That said, Autodesk has placed many CNC mfgr's like Axiom in a precarious position by providing a free product in the hopes of huge gains in market share.
Since Fusion 360 is free to most users in the beginning, there is no markup for the mfgr, that means that if they were to provide training, support or produce post processors, there can never be a gain for them, only cost or loss. The product is free for most in the beginning, so even Autodesk does little to provide post processors for each and every brand. Its a no win for anyone that distributes the product. Eventually when Autodesk has bought up and killed off the competition there ill be good and bad news. Good news is that there may be better posts available, bad news is everyone will be paying on a subscription basis, and should you let your subscription expire, you will not be able to open files created previously. And where are these files? The cloud? Who owns that??
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 17:48:28 GMT -5
My local maker space has standardized on Fusion not just because it's free for all their users but because of the versatility. They only have to learn one CAD/CAM package and they can use it for all their machines: Laser cutter, 3D printer, CNC mill/lathe/router/plasma cutter. Several of the people I've talked to there have the same answer about what tools they use, Solidworks at work and Fusion at home.
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grg
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Post by grg on Apr 2, 2018 9:34:16 GMT -5
In the example above where there is a Laguna post processor - it's also possible that AutoDesk charges to develop a post processor for a manufacturer. I can imagine that AutoDesk has a formula of their marketing benefit to having a post processor available for the most popular machines and charging to develop one for the lesser popular machines.
Regardless, I sniffed through some of the post processing files and they are a bit complex - there's a good bit of time involved with creating those (I'm NOT volunteering). If it was a matter of $ to get it done and Axiom doesn't see the value in it, once we've identified HOW to get it done, perhaps a kickstarter campaign could generate the funds needed. I would be willing to pitch in some cash.
I'm a native Solidworks user but have been really impressed with the power of AutoDesk's Fusion 360 and am starting to convert more projects to it. I am not happy with V-carve or Aspire - both are very clunky and feel like I've time warped myself backwards every time I try to do something with them. Having the Fusion 360 CAM package directly punch out usable Gcode for my Axiom would be a gigantic benefit for me.
I'm also willing to dig a little deeper into the Post file - if it's just a matter of tweaking some of the existing code to limit accelerations and the like, I can pitch in there too.
Thanks,
JKohl
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Post by garylyb on Apr 3, 2018 21:58:03 GMT -5
In the example above where there is a Laguna post processor - it's also possible that AutoDesk charges to develop a post processor for a manufacturer. I can imagine that AutoDesk has a formula of their marketing benefit to having a post processor available for the most popular machines and charging to develop one for the lesser popular machines. Regardless, I sniffed through some of the post processing files and they are a bit complex - there's a good bit of time involved with creating those (I'm NOT volunteering). If it was a matter of $ to get it done and Axiom doesn't see the value in it, once we've identified HOW to get it done, perhaps a kickstarter campaign could generate the funds needed. I would be willing to pitch in some cash. I'm a native Solidworks user but have been really impressed with the power of AutoDesk's Fusion 360 and am starting to convert more projects to it. I am not happy with V-carve or Aspire - both are very clunky and feel like I've time warped myself backwards every time I try to do something with them. Having the Fusion 360 CAM package directly punch out usable Gcode for my Axiom would be a gigantic benefit for me. I'm also willing to dig a little deeper into the Post file - if it's just a matter of tweaking some of the existing code to limit accelerations and the like, I can pitch in there too. Thanks, JKohl Several people have said that the rs274 post processor works with axiom. I don't know what else would need to be done. If anything needs to be changed in it, it shouldn't be a big effort. There is a forum on the Autodesk site for post processors and an Autodesk rep answers questions there. The fusion post is written in javascript, so it can be easily modified. The Vectric processor for Axiom is on the Vectric site, it's a bunch of config statements, so that might help to find what parameters might need to change if anything doesn't work right.
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grg
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Post by grg on Apr 4, 2018 6:39:30 GMT -5
I'm in the process of setting up my used Axiom AR8 Pro and was having some trouble getting some of the basic things correct out of the machine (circles were odd shaped trapezoids, etc.)...I wasn't sure if it was a problem with the gcode coming out of Fusion or a problem with the controller so I reset the controller. The geometry problems were resolved but I now had a pretty substantial scaling issue. That confirmed to me that the setup files for the machine were the issue so I wrote Axiom support asking about how to acquire the original setup data files for the controller and, wow, what an experience! I was immediately greeted with a welcome, fresh data file to reinitialize the controller with, instructions, and even an updated machine manual...so kudos to Axiom! - I really wasn't expecting that level of support having purchased a used machine. With that out of the way, I did ask about Fusion 360 post processing. While I'm hesitant to speak on behalf of Axiom, the feeling was that there weren't that many users interested in using Fusion to warrant a major undertaking to develop the post. I can understand that. For me, Fusion is the future and I'll keep hacking away at the post if I find problems. During my email conversation with Axiom, they sent me the same post processor file that is available in the previous linked (by smokediver576) to AutoDesk forum where an AutoDesk engineer made some tweaks for an Axiom post processor file. This is the file I'm using and while I certainly haven't pushed any limits with it - it appears to be working fine. You just need to be sure to do your CAM work in millimeters. I also noticed a drop down box in the Gcode output box to select millimeters for the gcode and that might work to convert everything too but I haven't tested it (it's in the bottom left of the processing dialog). Here's the AutoDesk forum where this was discussed (previously shared by smokediver576 in this thread) forums.autodesk.com/t5/hsm-post-processor-forum/post-processor-richauto-a11-axiom-machine/td-p/6074054Here's the non-official post processor that was tweaked by an AutoDesk engineer: forums.autodesk.com/autodesk/attachments/autodesk/218/646/1/12902_Axiom%20Autopro%20RichAutoA11_m3x.cps
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Post by smokediver576 on Apr 4, 2018 17:41:28 GMT -5
FYI all, the tweaked post seems to work okay for what I've been doing. If you are using F360 then the output in or mm is your friend. Forgot who on here pointed me to that but it has been a huge help vs going back and forth changing the document settings.
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grg
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Post by grg on Apr 17, 2018 9:28:40 GMT -5
I've spent some time filling my "frustration bucket" with Fusion 360 on trying to create tool paths before coming to the conclusion that it really doesn't seem to like imported models (from Solidworks) and it only shows when trying to setup tool path processes following part geometry in CAM. I've also found that creating a reasonably complex sign (with lettering) really bogs Fusion down...so I went back to spend some more time with V-carve and found that I didn't give it enough time and/or credit initially. The toolpaths are pretty simplistic and while the interface isn't all glittery with the latest high resolution 3D simulations, it's really FAST. For pieces parts and mechanical design, I'll probably keep grinding through the learning curve with 360 but for signs and the like I don't think much will beat the Vectric softwares.
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wally
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Post by wally on Oct 15, 2019 22:24:29 GMT -5
Has anyone tried the RS274 post processor on an AR16 Elite? The HUST controller uses different cnc files than the other controllers supplied by Axiom.
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Post by Axiom Tool Group on Oct 16, 2019 8:36:39 GMT -5
Has anyone tried the RS274 post processor on an AR16 Elite? The HUST controller uses different cnc files than the other controllers supplied by Axiom. To the best of our knowledge, there are no generic gcode posts (like the RS274) which will work with the HUST controller. We have tried contacting Autodesk several times to encourage them to create a post processor for this controller, but to date have not received much support. This is more or less what we experienced years ago when Fusion was first released. It took a very long time before a post was found that would work with our RichAuto controllers...then shortly afterward, they finally wanted to create an Axiom specific post. Sadly, based upon customer information, the generic RS274 appears to work better than the one they had created specifically for our RichAuto controls.
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