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Post by jwardy on Dec 12, 2017 19:47:50 GMT -5
Ok, I've been chasing a phantom problem for many months. I have an AR6 and am using Vcarve Desktop to create mmg files. I use the machine at least 3 days per week - some weeks it is every day all day. Usually, I have no issues. However, the Y axis will occasionally slip (freeze up, screech & loose position) in the middle of a run. When the X axis is scheduled to take over, it is in the wrong place and I get ruined product out of the deal. I have checked for any possible physical causes - such as the cable chain falling below the supports. I am lubricating the machine daily. I was advised to check the HHC cable connections, and even move my work to the back of the machine - none of this has fixed the issue. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen often, so any change may not produce a known result. If I can go 2+ months without a slip, I think it may be fixed.
Now, I just created a new file and inadvertently had the feed set to 100 in/sec when I am used to running in/min. So, when the bit went to it's start point, the "Y" axis immediately slipped - even before touching the material. When I figured out what was wrong with the new file, I started to think that I need to slow down my feed to fix the phantom problem.
I am usually running at 150 IPM with a 1/2" bit @ F280 when the "Y" axis slips. I am hogging out a 6" x 3" rectangle, 3/4" deep with a pocket toolpath. I have it set to take roughly .1" per pass.
So, question: How fast do you run your machine? Have you had any issues with slipping?
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Post by stevem on Dec 12, 2017 20:10:59 GMT -5
With a 1/2" end mill, I don't think I would cut any faster than 80 ipm and possibly take 4 passes to go the 3/4" depth. I have a AR4 but that really shouldn't make a difference. I also don't think lubing every day is necessary. I am ore like you, some days I'll cut all day long and others not more than once a week for no more than a few minutes. I don't lube the machine every time I use it, but I do keep it clean at all times.
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Post by jwardy on Dec 14, 2017 10:29:49 GMT -5
Thanks stevem, I realized, I didn't specify the material or passes. I am cutting hardwood maple and am making 8 passes.
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Post by stevem on Dec 14, 2017 10:47:25 GMT -5
I would still try slowing the feed rate some. A 1/2" bit in maple @ 150 ipm still seems to fast. You may also try checking the small set screws on the connectors that connect the motors to the ball screws. Mine were loose when I got the machine. They needed almost a 1/4 turn to become tight.
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Post by jwardy on Dec 14, 2017 10:52:43 GMT -5
Yep, checked those.
Speed - it seems OK to me, but I am going to back it down a bit. The machine isn't struggling to get through the material and is leaving very clean cuts. I have been running this way for 8 months or so. Tech support didn't think I was running it too fast.
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Post by techtonix on Dec 29, 2017 23:20:55 GMT -5
I have been having the SAME problem on my Y axis for a year now. It's a phantom problem and very hard to reproduce, but it's getting worse.
I've spent the entire day. took all the bearings off, cleaned them, checked clearances, and they are all spick and span.
Even with the Y stepper motor disconnected and free, it was stuck as the controller was telling it to move. While it was actively being faulty, I tapped the stepper on the side of the frame and it started working properly. After more then a year it seems the Y stepper is actually faulty internally. I have just contacted Chad about the problem today and a video reproducing the issue, hoping to hear back soon.
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Post by jwardy on Jan 2, 2018 17:25:52 GMT -5
Techtonix, keep us posted - I have been wondering about replacing my stepper motor if the problem continues. I haven't had an issue for a couple months now - I am running slightly slower speeds. Time will tell if that is enough.
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Post by aluomala on Jan 2, 2018 20:35:51 GMT -5
As a new owner (purchased but haven't received it yet), I am getting more and more apprehensive as I read these posts about parts not being tight right out of the factory, or crapping out within a short period of time. I know that these machines aren't in the same category as the $50K+ machines that some people have worked on in production settings (I come from a strictly hobbyist background), but at almost $10,000 (I'm in Canada, and our Canuck peso isn't doing so well right now....) I would expect a little better than what I have been reading. Just because a Ford Fiesta isn't a Shelby Mustang, I want the wheels to stay on at highway speeds and last past the first oil change. I hear that the tech support (Chad) is great, but I was hoping to get my machine and be cutting away with not a worry in the world. One of my buddies has had 2 couplers break on him in 2 or 3 months. I purchased 5 (from China) to have spares, since I think that the analogy of that these are like fan belts on a motor, so it doesn't hurt to have some on hand (rather than wait a week or so for a $6 part to get shipped to you while you're staring at a broken down machine). Since I'm in Canada, a week is likely wishful thinking, since I've waited 2 weeks for basic items to get shipped from California or Chicago (the border/customs is the weak link in the chain, as well as CanadaPost). Hopefully I don't get a Friday-afternoon built machine (or the Monday morning after a long weekend hangover... ).
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Post by stevem on Jan 2, 2018 21:33:46 GMT -5
aluomala: I think you are making more out of this than there is. 99% of the time these couplers are breaking is because the machine is being pushed to the limits. If you intend to run at 200 ipm all the time, you are buying the wrong machine. You will need to spent quite alot more money on something like a Camaster Stinger or something like that sort of machine. I have never run my machine at it's limits, but I have run it at 150 ipm many times and still have had no problems. There are several Axiom owners who haven't had any problems. Many of the problems with these machines are caused by user error. I am not saying the machines are perfect, but if you take care of it, you should be able to run the machine without any problems. Keeping it clean, oiling it properly is about all you have to do. When I got my machine, I opened up the control box and checked every connection. Takes about 10 min. Then I took a allen wrench and tightened everything that could be tightened. When I hooked up the machine, I made sure all the outside connectors were tight. The cable from the box to the pendant as well. This all took only 20 min or so. I also checked all the connections on all the stepper motors. Remember, this thing was shipped from Taiwan, loaded in a container, put on a truck and bounced all the way to Ohio. Then it was put on another truck and shipped to you. Axiom does test them before shipping, but to what extent, I don't know. There isn't a machine out there that won't need some work from time to time. I look at the posts on this site just like you do and wonder if I made a mistake buying it. All I can tell you is once you get it setup and running, you will be happy you have it. I originally started with a Shark HD4! I had it for 3 months. In that time, Next Wave had my control box and pendant for almost 5 weeks out of the 3 months. I was very grateful to Rockler for taking it back and letting me order a Axiom. Since I sold Ford vehicles for 45 years, I'll just say this: You didn't buy a Fiesta or a Mustang, but did buy a very nice Explorer.
Steve
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Post by aluomala on Jan 2, 2018 22:57:05 GMT -5
Steve, thanks for the input. I have a NWA PirahnaXL (and a ShapeOko2 that I am retiring when I get my Axiom).
I am sure I will be happy once I get it, and heed the advise to treat it like it was intended to be treated: a step above (maybe a huge step) the hobbyist machines I'm used to, but not a production environment machine. I am more concerned with uptime and reliability than stress-testing it, so I will ease into my projects (although I have a large list of projects waiting to be made).
As the Axiom machines are new-ish, there are bound to be some growing pains (with technologies, QC, etc), and I took a fairly big leap of faith in going with Axiom (I was looking at the machines that were being bought by schools, etc since they are more established brands). I am just hoping to avoid the disappoint that I experienced with my purchase of the Pirahna (more with the user interface and dodgy software/hardware, and inconsistent support).
Allan
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Post by stevem on Jan 3, 2018 9:44:18 GMT -5
aluomala: That is good to hear. These really aren't high production machines like some of the others that cost $15k and up. With that being said, when I am in my sort of full production mode, I am usually running my Axiom for 5-8 hours in a day to cut out parts for my projects. So far, I have not tried to stress out the machine by running it at max. When I am cutting out 30-50 parts in a day, it really doesn't matter if it takes somewhat longer at 150 ipm vrs 200 ipm. That only equates to another 15-20 min cutting time for the whole day. It takes more time just switching out cutters than the actual cutting times. I am quite sure you will be happy with your investment, once you get it home and up and running. Some of the projects that I have seen guys making with the Axiom are fantastic. I have only had my AR4 Basic since last February compared to others that have had their machines for a few years. You are correct about the Axiom being a new brand. Some other makers that sell some really good machines and are actually made in the states are also very good machines, but cost much more have some of the normal problems these machines tend to have. Just go check out the camhead's forum and see the problems these machines are having. It seems like they have similar problems as well. All I can say is it will be worth the wait.
Steve
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dusty
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by dusty on Jan 11, 2018 6:57:25 GMT -5
aluomala: I have been programming and operating CNC routers since 1993. Usually the big guys traveling at 800ipm with 45 horse power to back it up and all the whistles and bells. After retiring I missed it more than I thought I would. I bought some different "hobby" CNC machines and was dismayed by the lack of repeated accuracy and flimsy construction. I finally got my Axiom. There was a few very minor things I had to adjust... mostly me. Now I'm running full tilt and boogie and the Axiom is doing great. My only regret is that I did not buy a bigger Axiom CNC, but there is always the future. You will not be sorry you gat an Axiom.
There, that's my 2 cents.
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Post by aluomala on Jan 11, 2018 17:33:55 GMT -5
Thanks for the re-assurances on my purchase (another week or so until I get my baby delivered...). I am actually already thinking about getting a second(!!) AR4Pro+ and a 4th axis rotary attachment. Part of it is that I already have more work lined up than I can possibly do (Canadian military unit badges) with only one big machine (even though I am running my NWA Pirahna 8 hours a day while I'm waiting for the Axiom, but due to small work area, limited in scope and scale). I have a bunch of ideas for the 4th axis, and even at that I would easily be able to run the 2 big machines, and the smaller Pirahna night and day just to keep up.
I'm looking forward to getting my machine to get to work, but I've been doing lots of research and studying to make sure I'm well versed on the more advanced machine (I bought GWizard so I'm not wasting time with guess work and trial and error (my old method)).
Thanks again guys,
Allan
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billt
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by billt on Jan 29, 2018 11:02:11 GMT -5
Does anyone know the temperature operating limits are? Mine sometimes does as described above with the Y and Z axis when the temp in the shop drops below 55 degrees. My shop is heated but not insulated very well. When outside temp gets to cold my shop temp can drop to around 50. I have never seen it below that. If these machines are not designed to operate below 55 degrees then that is a problem. Has anyone else had problems when its cold.
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Post by stevem on Jan 29, 2018 13:23:47 GMT -5
That isn't the problem. 50 degrees isn't that cold. I have only tried cutting a 200 ipm once. It worked fine, but I usually cur at about 100 ipm. When you are actually V-carving, you would never go that fast. You also have to remember that when you are cutting out a pattern, the machine always slows down when making turns, so it is probably never cutting at full speed anyway.
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Post by traindriver on Jan 29, 2018 20:21:19 GMT -5
I've had my AR8Pro for over two years and kept mine either in the garage or a detached shop - never in a climate controlled space. I imagine the coldest it's been when I cranked it up was in the 40's, and I didn't have any issues. Also, when it's in the 90's, I don't see any issues either.
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Post by techtonix on Apr 5, 2018 0:14:02 GMT -5
Techtonix, keep us posted - I have been wondering about replacing my stepper motor if the problem continues. I haven't had an issue for a couple months now - I am running slightly slower speeds. Time will tell if that is enough. JWARDY, I finally got around to replacing the stepper motor with the replacement I had to buy out of pocket. NO IMPROVEMENT. I might file suit, as this problem started while the machine was still under warranty and my email was not responded to.
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Post by cmatherne on Jan 26, 2022 13:41:20 GMT -5
I know this is an old thread but any chance you were able to fix this Techtonix? I am running into a similar problem with my AR8. The RichAuto controller seems to provide coordinates that do not match up with surface position. The Y-axis slips and damages the work piece. Machine is still under warranty for 2 months but concerned I may have a lemon. This issue has damaged several workpieces but does not happen regularly enough to pinpoint the cause. Hoping I can send in the HHC and control box for professional diagnostics.
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Post by jgarciaa on Mar 3, 2024 22:48:26 GMT -5
Ok, I've been chasing a phantom problem for many months. I have an AR6 and am using Vcarve Desktop to create mmg files. I use the machine at least 3 days per week - some weeks it is every day all day. Usually, I have no issues. However, the Y axis will occasionally slip (freeze up, screech & loose position) in the middle of a run. When the X axis is scheduled to take over, it is in the wrong place and I get ruined product out of the deal. I have checked for any possible physical causes - such as the cable chain falling below the supports. I am lubricating the machine daily. I was advised to check the HHC cable connections, and even move my work to the back of the machine - none of this has fixed the issue. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen often, so any change may not produce a known result. If I can go 2+ months without a slip, I think it may be fixed. Now, I just created a new file and inadvertently had the feed set to 100 in/sec when I am used to running in/min. So, when the bit went to it's start point, the "Y" axis immediately slipped - even before touching the material. When I figured out what was wrong with the new file, I started to think that I need to slow down my feed to fix the phantom problem. I am usually running at 150 IPM with a 1/2" bit @ F280 when the "Y" axis slips. I am hogging out a 6" x 3" rectangle, 3/4" deep with a pocket toolpath. I have it set to take roughly .1" per pass. So, question: How fast do you run your machine? Have you had any issues with slipping? Consider exploring the Monport laser for its reputation for being user-friendly, high-quality, and affordable. Unfortunately, I can't access external websites like monportlaser.com/collections/co2-laser-engravers/products/monport-40w-lightburn-ready-12-x-8-co2-laser-engraver-cutter-with-fda-approval?sca_ref=5031521.ka374VZjm3 Regarding the issue with the Y-axis slipping on your AR6 CNC machine, it's possible that the high feed rate combined with the depth of cut is causing the slipping. Try reducing the feed rate or depth of cut to see if it helps alleviate the issue. Additionally, ensure that your machine's mechanical components, such as belts, pulleys, and bearings, are properly tensioned and lubricated. If the problem persists, reaching out to the manufacturer's customer support or consulting with experienced CNC users for further guidance may be beneficial.
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