Useful information.....maybe??

[zaxis4]

Since I received my machine I have learned many things, most of the time the hard way,  that might be useful to new owners.

1. If you have a basic machine, ie router, I would suggest putting a Bosch on it. The sound level on the Bosch compared to PC is remarkably better. I would say about half the noise. Not even as loud as a shop vac. Extremely quiet on low rpm's. The electronic speed control is much better also. Probably not many router users out there but.....anyway no need to buy twice. 

2. When you start up and go HOME it's a good idea to keep your finger on the STOP button. I found that limit switches can become loose and move, causing a loud clicking noise, widespread panic and undo stress  luckily no harm done. Check them from time to time.

3. The collets that come with routers are fine but precision collets that can be obtained are infinitely better. I found that replacing with precision collets makes run out almost negligible. I bought 3 sizes for mine and I am very pleased with the results. I did not think a collet could make much difference in run out but the stock collets on routers are junk compared to precision collets.

4. When resurfacing the spoil board you will probably see some ridges, maybe .002-.003 deep. Its probably not going to be glass perfect. A call to Chad said it is not an issue. And it is not.... no worries! It's not a Bridgeport!

5. Hold down was and issue for me for awhile until I found this method out there somewhere on utube. I used MDF for a backer board and cut a pocket in it about .125 deep. I then made a frame out of MDF also (with my CNC of course) with 2 sides angled at about 4 degrees, sized to fit the pocket. Now I could wedge my work piece in it using wedges cut from the cut out in the middle. The whole frame is clamped to the table with the Axiom hold down clamps. I also learned about dog bone corners  while I was doing this....who would have known!! Scrap blocks of wood allow you to put in different sizes of material. I have found this simple method allows me to precisely remove and replace the work piece as needed with xy always being in the same place. I do a lot of inlay work and it helped a lot. I have made several frames of different sizes to go along with different projects. The Vetric drawing and a photo follows. This is probably confusing and maybe no big deal for some of you but it was a great discovery for me, so I thought I would pass it on.


Clarification....There should be a slight (4 degree) angle on one side of the cut out as well as the top. My vectric drawing only shows the top angled.


6. If you want to be precise, like I do. CNC Cookbook is worthwhile. It gives you a better way to adjust speed and feed than doing the math and looking at Amana spec sheets. You can even choose wood species. They have it all figured out for you. Or you can just chuck up a bit and go for it like I did for awhile. I feel much more confident using Cookbook though.

7. The z puck gets nicked up from sharp bits and the wire gets pulled out. No worries it all still works.

8. The USB door falls off from time to time. No worries.... just put it back on.

9. The USB drive is not recognized from time to time. No worries....  just reboot.

I don't do large carvings. Mostly inlay (inlay detail is phenomenal) and box work so I am happy with my basic Axiom. I do lots of cut outs and small 3D carvings, and some mortising, that otherwise was a tedious procedure on a router table with a fence. Some shaping operations and mill work are still better achieved with a router table IMHO. I guess if I ever want to get into huge carvings that take a day to cut then I will have to buy another machine since mine is not upgradable but I am more than pleased with this machine with a Bosch on it.

Thanks for reading, I am going to make a better effort to include pictures projects and my discoveries on this forum to help others. I hope you will also. It will make for a better forum. 

Attachments:

[redwood]

Thanks for all that.

[Axiom Tool Group]

An absolutely stellar inlay! Thank you for sharing.

And thank you as well for the hold down illustration. This is actually the first time I have seen this done and I'm sure that many of our users, myself included, could use that setup from time to time.

[Deleted]

Nice post, regarding #1 consider this:

www.precisebits.com/lab_reports/bosch_colt_TIR.htm

Something else is that the Colt has the bearing mounted in the plastic body so heat can be a problem while the Dewalt 611 is aluminum so it's more rigid and essentially a heat sink. One downside to the Dewalt is buried in the instruction manual, it specifies that the brushes are not user serviceable and that they need to be checked/cleaned/replaced every 100 hours of use which is pretty often for a CNC machine. So sending it off for factory service will be a frequent event, I'd much prefer a brushless spindle motor that doesn't require service except for when the bearings need to be replaced.

For #3 what size collets did you get and where did you get them? It is amazing how bad the stock ones are and how much better ones are available from Precise Bits and others.

Very nice inlay work, you may find the Youtube videos from MTMwook interesting as he does a lot of nice inlays in his cutting boards:

www.youtube.com/channel/UCWBTyvNhUXq0ofu6ta1EAaQ

I really like your frame and wedge work holding method. It's a lot like how type was held in the old days of printing.

[zaxis4]

Thanks for the reply, I know you will really like this hold down method. I have not been able to locate where I came across that on utube but I am glad I found it. When I talked to the folks at "Think and Tinker", were I bought my collets a few months back They were voicing concerns with the colt router then. There must be a manufacturing problem. Some are good and some not. With my Basic4 I use the Bosch 1617EVS that has been around forever. I was astonished at how quiet it is compared to a Porter Cable. They recommended it for CNC. I bought 1/8,1/4 and 1/2 collets from Precise Bits. I never did even run the stock collets out of the box. I just put on their collets and went with it. They list collets for all models of popular routers on their site. If I was running the hobby size CNC unit and had to buy a Colt for it right now I would look into the run out very seriously. I do use Colts for small hand work, and have for a long time. They are of earlier vintage so the collets are better than what they were testing. If the taper has a bulge in it nothing would work very well. Hand held routers really would not benefit from a collet change simply because they are hand held. My 1617 really did a job to do that compass rose, as did the rigidity and accuracy of Axiom CNC. To be that dead on for such a delicate inlay it had to be running pretty true. Obviously spindles probably don't have this issue......I would not know that for sure. However a router in good shape and set up with good collets is no less accurate. If I ever wear it out I can put a new one on for $150. I probably would not even mess with brushes or bearings. Right now that works for me.

[redwood]

I have the Bosch 1617 mounted in my router table. I've been very happy with it.

[stevem]

I have a friend that has a Shark HD3 and he used a Bosch router. He has used it to run jobs as long as 10 hours and he said it never gets hot. You just can't let it run a 24,000 for that long, but he said when he does the long carvings, he usually runs it at about 12k to 18k.
My friend has used the same Bosch for over 2 years and has not even replaced the brushes or bearings. It's probably starting to wear out, but it's still running.

I wish I could afford the spindle machine, but for another $1,000 I could buy 6-7 Bosch routers. I have had a Bosch in my router table for 4 years and when I am using it for making moldings, it running for hours at a time.
I know many say routers aren't as accurate, but if I used a better collet like zaxis4 suggests and it reduces the runnout, I see no reason to pay the extra.

The only other thing I have heard is routers have no where near the actual power they claim to have and spindles have horse power and more constant torque.

I really think the precision is in the actual machine by not having any slop in the X,Y and Z axis.

[zaxis4]

The folks from "Think and Tinker" recommend running your router for a few minutes at idle to get the lubrication up in the bearings before starting a job. They say that will prolong router life a great deal. I would suspect cold temperatures have something to do with that also. Room temperature, not so much. It's probably is good practice for a spindle too. Anyway just passing the info along....thanks for reading

[zaxis4]

Fean, thanks for sharing the MTM Woodwork site. That is some amazing lamination work. I do segmented turning so that was of interest to me. I enjoyed looking.....

[stevem]

zaxis4:

I had ordered a AR6 Basic and recently found out it won't be here till the end of May. If I don't want to wait, I can get the AR4 Basic by about April 20th.
My question to you is, how long have you had the AR4, how happy are you with the machine and have you had many things go wrong with it?

By the way that inlay is awsome!

Thanks
Steve

[zaxis4]

Steve, I have had my AR4 since last August. I have had no issues whatsoever except I needed a firmware upgrade for the pendant. You have seen a few of the things I do in my shop. I am a box builder mostly, I also scroll saw, do segmented turning and make lots of jigs and fixtures for projects as I need them. I have never had a need for anything bigger than the 2x2 table. The CNC was an enhancement to make my woodworking better and easier. I can't see myself doing elaborate carvings that take hours to complete (most of my jobs are an hour or less in any one stage), or real large cut outs for furniture and such. It is a hard decision and I fretted about it for a long time before I settled on the basic 4. I kind of figured that the size was always OK and (I Thought) I could just upgrade to spindle down the road if I ever wanted to. That proved not to be the case. After nearly 9 months I am still happy with my basic4 and router so that is a moot point anyway. By the time I added in the stand, tool box, a starter set of bits, a router and a dust thingamajig I was pretty deep into my wallet anyway. I think you need to think about what you really want to be able to accomplish with your CNC. For me I have plenty of real estate under the gantry for the work that I do. If you ever think you need more room then you better stick with the 6. They do take up a lot of floor space. That was also a consideration for my basement shop. BTW these things are heavy. you need lots of help to get it to it's new home and up on the legs. What ever you do I think it is always best to get what you really want the first time. Otherwise you will always wish you would have.....that kind of sounds like a Yogy Berra quote ......hope this helps.

[stevem]

I was just talking with Chad about an hour ago. In reality, if I needed to cut anything longer than 24", I would just use the tiling feature in V Carve pro which I already have.
What I wanted to know from Chad was how often do these A 11 controllers fail and what the cost is to replace it if it happens.  He said most times it's just a firmware upgrade, but if one actually quit they cost about $650 for new and about $450 for a refurbished one.
My basic concern was the actual reliability of the machine in general, what craps out and the cost of repair.
It sounds like what you use your machine for is what I would be using mine for.  I would be mostly cutting out parts for other projects.  I don't know if I would do carvings for 10 hours, but like I said earlier, my friend has done that using a Bosch 1617 on a Shark machine and they came out looking quite nice.  I know his router is over 2 years old.

[Deleted]

Something to also check out when it comes to clamping would be the following videos:

[zaxis4]

Great information. That is great stuff for this forum and very inspiring. It gives us something to think about. Thanks!

[zaxis4]

Apr 7, 2017 17:28:45 GMT -5 stevem said:

I was just talking with Chad about an hour ago. In reality, if I needed to cut anything longer than 24", I would just use the tiling feature in V Carve pro which I already have.
What I wanted to know from Chad was how often do these A 11 controllers fail and what the cost is to replace it if it happens.  He said most times it's just a firmware upgrade, but if one actually quit they cost about $650 for new and about $450 for a refurbished one.
My basic concern was the actual reliability of the machine in general, what craps out and the cost of repair.
It sounds like what you use your machine for is what I would be using mine for.  I would be mostly cutting out parts for other projects.  I don't know if I would do carvings for 10 hours, but like I said earlier, my friend has done that using a Bosch 1617 on a Shark machine and they came out looking quite nice.  I know his router is over 2 years old.

A router gets the job done for most with no lack of quality. If your going to run job after job every day for a business, or all you do is 3D carve then you need a spindle.There is definitely a market for both. I would suspect a lot of users on this forum are much bigger operators than me. If money is no object then the spindle does it all. I don't think that you must have the water cooled spindle or the quality of carving or inlay or cut out, is not as good. For me the quality of Axiom gantries is what really make the difference IMHO. As I have complained about elsewhere on this forum, the biggest complaint I have is RichAuto. However as Chad clarified, this software control is used everywhere for a variety of applications. I just wish the Chinese were better at computer science. So this is it, I will adapt and get used to it. The operating system is definitely the weak link.