|
Post by aluomala on Mar 22, 2019 16:23:51 GMT -5
Hi. I have my new AR8Pro arriving today (hopefully). I have a AR4Pro+ already, and this new machine is to help me increase production, as well as allow for my AR4Pro to be used for specialized tasks (rotary axis, drag knife, digital joints (Tailmaker software) made using a 15 degree jig, do inlay and epoxy work and be able to leave it on machine for long periods, etc) and still be able to do other projects concurrently (on the bigger machine). When I bought my AR4Pro, I had it delivered to my garage/shop and then had some friends help me move it up a ramp to the stand that I had (I didn't buy the Axiom stand, but repurposed a torsion table stand that I had from my previous DIY machine (ShapeOko2) using a furniture dolly. The problem I have now, is that I have recently moved, and I'm in a semi-rural area, and don't know my new neighbours well enough to try to press them into service to lift/move this new machine onto the base. I was contemplating hiring a forklift, but I dread the thought of how much it would cost for a forklift to drive out here, to do about 1 minute of work (yes, I can afford to have 2 CNC machines and yes, I am a cheap b$#@#d). I don't believe I will be able to use my ramp method (as I had used previously) because with my torsion table, I was able to roll the machine up onto the table on the furniture dolly and then lift it (the machine) up and remove the dolly. My wife suggested I install a hoist (or similar) in the garage, but that isn't feasible at the moment (and a little bit of overkill for my purposes). I had thoughts of assembling the stand, laying it on it's side and attaching the Axiom to it (with bolts and rubber shock washers) and then using my quad with it's winch to upright it, much like a towtruck would right a car, truck, etc. I know I would need to block/support the feet that will be the only points of contact while it is raising (I was going to put 2 long boards down (in line with the feet) and then drive the quad onto those boards, so that they don't slide around. I know in my mind that A) this could work and B) it is rife with the possibility for disaster. I also thought about jacking up the Axiom, much like one would raise a house using large wooden blocks (6x6), but I don't think this is possible due to the nature/design of the Axiom stand. I'm probably overthinking this, and I should just get some friends together (about a 20-30 minute drive for my friends), but once I started thinking about clever ways to do this, I couldn't stop thinking of ways to accomplish this task, and I'm sure that there are people in this forum that have had to come up with different ways to do this task (because I can't be the only cheap guy out there with a lack of available friends (or friends period )
|
|
|
Post by traindriver on Mar 22, 2019 19:09:35 GMT -5
When I got my AR8Pro, I was able to use my tractor to pick it up kind of - I didn't have pallet forks back then, so I had to chain it to the bucket while still in the crate. I put it on a trailer and backed the trailer into the garage, since it started raining as soon as they delivered it, and it was a monsoon shortly after I got it into the garage. ANYWAY, I unpacked it on the trailer (about 18" off the ground) and needed some way to get it onto my welding table, which was my first cnc stand. I went the ancient Egyptian route and used wooden ramps and three 1" diameter dowel rods 48" long under the frame to roll the machine up the ramps and onto my table. It was about a 18 to 20 inch height increase, so I had somewhat of an angle to overcome where the ramp leveled onto the table, but I had a dowel near the center of the machine, so it wasn't hard to ease it from the rollers on the ramp to the rollers on the table. Since I only had to lift it a little over an inch to get a dowel under the machine, it didn't take much effort to lift one end of the machine that much with a flat pry bar. I would never discourage anyone from seeking help with this sort of thing, but I moved mine this way by myself, and I'm no bodybuilder, so it is possible.
|
|
|
Post by gerry on Mar 22, 2019 19:58:15 GMT -5
My son and I used his engine A-Frame to install my AR8 Pro+. We used straps on the A-frame to lift it and rolled the table underneath. They rent pretty cheap at rental years.
|
|
|
Post by aluomala on Mar 22, 2019 20:38:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the suggestions guys! The engine A-frame might be the safest and cheapest way to do this. I sort of had something like that in mind, but more along the "teepee frame/block and tackle" method in my head, but the engine A-frame is much safer (and is designed to lift heavy bulky items on concrete floors). The slipperyness of my concrete floor (polished concrete) is what caused hesitation in my mind to do my quad-winch idea. I was worried that the feet might slip out.
I might even look at buying one, since I'm sure they're not too expensive, and will assist me with other heavy items if I need to move them, or load them in my truck for whatever reason and I don't have any muscle around to help me.
Allan
|
|
|
Post by aluomala on Mar 22, 2019 20:41:30 GMT -5
Just to clarify, this is what I should be looking at, right?: link
|
|
johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
|
Post by johnb on Mar 22, 2019 20:55:23 GMT -5
I don't think you want to "tilt it up" with the quad...but...think outside the box here a little. Consider using the quad as the "motive power" to hoist it vertically using a "temporary" overhead construction. Your machine weighs 405 lbs (per the website). Look around and see what you have in the way of scaffolding, steel, 4 x 4 lumber... 2 x 8 or bigger lumber and figure out a way to do this. What do you have in the way of jacks? Can you back a utility trailer into the shop in a way that you could move the stand to where you need it after the machine is on it? If so you could "worry" the machine onto the trailer and then jack and block the trailer. My little shop repertoire includes a 10 ton bottle jack and a 1500# ATV/Mower jack, a small automotive floor jack and...when that's not enough, a 10 ton wheeled overhead gantry crane with a geared trolley (currently holding "only" a 3000# chain hoist).
All that being said and done...you have a ready-made opportunity to "meet your neighbors". You'll need more than four. Tell them what's going on and ask them what kind of adult beverage they prefer. Whatever it is, upgrade it to a better quality. You might spend $150 on booze (you're not THAT cheap, are you?) and you'll have friends for life. You might even follow up with a "little something" produced in your shop.
I can't tell you how many times in my life I've been bullheaded and hesitant to ask for help...only to "get to know" the neighbor a little better and hear "Why the HELL didn't you CALL me?". I make it a habit to try to do "little things" for people when I see a struggle going on and it pays back (in spades). The guy down the street from me was self-constructing a house and had the OSB floor decking down when the rains threatened...He covered it all with sheet plastic...I noticed this and drove to my shop and got the curved-end squeegee and took it to him...told him "bring it back when you're dried in"...he later helped me muscle a 400# gun safe off a trailer, across a gravel drive, into the house, and into a closet...having recruited another 2 people to aid in the process. What goes around, comes around.
|
|
|
Post by gerry on Mar 22, 2019 22:20:54 GMT -5
Just to clarify, this is what I should be looking at, right?: link
Yup... That's what we used. We hung wide cargo straps from the hook. Hoisted it up, and rolled the stand right under it. I do have the factory stand with wheels. Great stand and toolbox. My son said that he bought it years ago, but it's one of the best things he's ever bought. He used to work on cars a lot more, but he says that he uses it to move a lot of heavy equipment around his shop. Here in SoCal, they look to be about $110 used, and $185-ish new, but I see very few used.
|
|
|
Post by laflippin on Mar 23, 2019 20:53:09 GMT -5
It could be the start of new friendships if you are able to reach out to a few of your new neighbors and ask for some very brief manpower...you may find that your neighbors, being naturally curious about their new neighbor, will find a way to help you out. Aside from all of the mechanical suggestions, which are fine, it will take very little time for 2 or 3 strong guys to do everything you need...plus, then comes a sociable beer and snacks with some friendly show-and-tell about the interesting machine that they helped you with.
|
|
chipclark2000
New Member
Long time woodworker, furniture maker, new to CNC!
Posts: 20
|
Post by chipclark2000 on Jun 30, 2019 15:13:27 GMT -5
Just to clarify, this is what I should be looking at, right?: link
Yup... That's what we used. We hung wide cargo straps from the hook. Hoisted it up, and rolled the stand right under it. I do have the factory stand with wheels. Great stand and toolbox. My son said that he bought it years ago, but it's one of the best things he's ever bought. He used to work on cars a lot more, but he says that he uses it to move a lot of heavy equipment around his shop. Here in SoCal, they look to be about $110 used, and $185-ish new, but I see very few used. How do you get the lower braces under it? Or does the boom reach out far enough?
|
|
|
Post by gerry on Jun 30, 2019 16:13:22 GMT -5
Here's my son and my wife doing cable management.... Raised up the Axiom bed, then just rolled the frame over the engine stand...
|
|
|
Post by Barry K on Jul 1, 2019 9:03:19 GMT -5
I used an Engine A Frame as above well and it worked great . You'll enjoy the machine !
|
|
|
Post by keng288 on Aug 16, 2019 18:34:33 GMT -5
used two step ladders with 2 X 6 across them, put straps to all 4 corners and used a come along to raise it high enough for the stand to roll under. When you are by yourself you become creative
|
|
|
Post by dadealeus on Aug 22, 2019 12:20:24 GMT -5
100% agree on the floor crane. I purchased one from Northern Tool on sale and it's been incredibly handy: I've used it a number of times for heavier projects. My only complaint has been the support legs getting in the way of things I need to lift, but you can often find terrible/ugly/stupid creative ways around that:
|
|
johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
|
Post by johnb on Aug 22, 2019 15:13:53 GMT -5
Dear Lord, Dadealeus The Axiom lift looks pretty clean...but that other one...the whole thing is relying on the tensile strength of 3 zip ties. You should make a meme out that photo and caption it with "Why Women Live Longer Than Men"
|
|
|
Post by dadealeus on Aug 22, 2019 15:30:27 GMT -5
Hahaha! The funny part is that those three zip ties were stronger than the 2x4 they were attached to; hence the galvanized angle-steel +20 zip ties reinforcement; the board had already cracked and it was about 3 AM at this point. It was actually only supporting a few pounds, it was simply a third hand as the legs needed to be moved in concert with the top and I couldn't do it all by myself. The wooden thing is actually a custom-milled ventilation port. I had the roll-up door installed, but when it's down, there's (roughly) 2" gap between the top and the door. The walls of this building are tilt-panel construction and the landlord won't let me install a ventilation port, so I had to get creative. I figured I could use the gap to vent fumes from my painting room to the outside and use the mail slot on the other side of the building as an intake for fresh air. So, I designed and milled a custom vent box that mounts above the door and vents the air through the crack and then milled a flange to mount inside of the 8" opening in the box to couple it to the duct hose: It uses an 8" ducting system and an inline fan (typically used for greenhouse ventilation) to vent at around 1000 CFM max flow with 8 variable speed settings. It was a pain to get into place, but I didn't want to fasten it to the wall because I lease here and the landlord already lectured me about the tilt-panel walls - so it just sort of hooks over the door, leans against the wall, and rests on the two supports: It's ugly, but it works like a charm! The remainder of the intake hose is 25' long and is free to move around the factory floor to vent fumes from wherever I'm working.
|
|
johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
|
Post by johnb on Aug 22, 2019 17:57:30 GMT -5
Uh...I guess...as long as you don't ever have to access whatever's behind that door in the wall to the left. If there was a 2" gap above that roll up door, then the installer clearly "left something out". Are there no roof vents/penetrations in your space?
|
|
|
Post by dadealeus on Aug 22, 2019 20:57:48 GMT -5
With two people, it's easy enough to lift out of the way to access the crawl-space for the HVAC unit if we need to - that's why I didn't affix it to anything. The guys who did the door install were actually really professional (TexDoor - highly recommend them if you need a roll-up door in central Texas), but I didn't want them to install a brush because I figured it was my only option for venting.
When I moved into this unit, the building was owned by a different person. That person was open to renovations and allowed me to have the glass doors knocked out and the roll-up door installed in their place. The new landlord... not so much. So, if I can do it on my own, I do - saves a lot of headaches!
|
|
|
Post by stoneace on Jan 2, 2020 10:58:08 GMT -5
Yikes....I hadn't even really thought about this. I'm building a stand and tool box for the Pro+ 8 I have coming. Adding the two pushed it beyond my budget. I didn't think about the weight getting it onto a table. How heavy is it?...nevermind just looked at the shipping weight. Does the shipping weight include a pallet or is it boxed? I should be OK, I think my son-in-law and I can handle that. Had me worried for a second…
|
|