Vcarve/Aspire Post Processor Axiom AR8 Pro

[mt1ss]

Someone explain why the Axiom PP in Vectric products do not support saving multiple toolpaths in one file?  The AR8 supports multiple manual tool changes. Configuration under "Advance Processing"  It is so simple to save all your toolpaths in one file, load your machine let it cut and stop for a tool change. Reset "Z" axis and begin again... rinse & repeat...  Is this something Axiom has to supply as the post processor or Vectrics responsibility?  In other words who supports the Post Processors?  I really miss MACH3 :-(

[gerry]

Manufactures supply pp, Vectric does not.

[stevem]

I am not sure I understand your question!
When you create a file and have more than one tool path, you can create a file and have everything all together.
That is what I have been doing since I started in cnc.
I usually create a folder and name my project. Then when I create the project and all the tool paths, I save them in that folder.

[gerry]

He wants to put multiple toolpaths using multiple tools in the same file.

[mt1ss]

Steven ... say you have a Vcarve model when you save the toolpaths at the top in a check box to select that you want to save all your toolpaths in one file. The AXIOM PP will not allow this. You receive an error stating the PP does note support that function. You must save each toolpath individuality. Unless the toolpath is using the same tool. I have a design that uses 18 tools and this requires 18 toolpath files. The Axiom AR8 Pro with the Richauto B18 supports manual tool changes (M6 code) under Advanced Processing configuration. A small routine in the PP would allow multiple toolpath saves, stop the spindle at X & Y allow operator manual tool change, re-zero Z axis., continue.. rinse & repeat... I'd like to talk to whoever writes, updates, supports the post processor for our Axiom machines???

[joeblow]

Granted I'm a cnc noob, but 18 different tools !!  I can't even imagine what you're making but my curiosity sure is piqued

I was actually just trying to set that function up yesterday as well and would be nice to have work as I have a job now with (only) 6 different tools.

[johnb]

Less than noob here...(still awaiting delivery of my Elite !6 and have never run a job on anything).

So...back to the 18 separate files...I suppose the intelligent thing to do there would be to name each file to include the tool you're about to use? Or is that a "stop point" with a prompt when you open the file? Or something you track manually (externally)?

Likewise...if you strung all 18 of those files together in a single file, when manually changing bits I suppose there would be stop points and (hopefully) tool change instructions imbedded in the file as well. Mt1ss mentions that the PP "allows" manual tool changes with an M6 command. Since there's no automatic tool changer available on the Axiom (at least not from them), how would it allow anything else?

[mt1ss]

Johnb The job with 18 tools can be broken down to 12 by combining 6 into one toolpath. But still you have 12 toolpaths to save to a USB stick. So I just number them i.e.
1Profile V-Bit
2Pocket6mmMill
3Vcarve90dgre Large Text
4Engrave 1mmball small text
on and on...

But then you have 12 files to load into the AXIOM 1 at a time.
It is so much simpler to have 1 toolpath fine that runs each tool stops waits for operate to manually change
tools, re-zero the Z axis continue .... rinse & repeat. The RichAuto as noted does not support ATC but
as also noted under "Advance Processing Setting" it does have MANUAL tool change that I believe would support
a G code " Tx M06 " tool change code...

[gerry]

If you are making multiple copies of the same file, you can lessen the pain of tool changes. Set Multiple Origins, each work piece having its own (0,0,0). You can have up to 9 origins at the same time. You can run up to 9 separate pieces before a bit change. I've used it a bit and it works slick.

Programming Additional Origins:
The RichAuto controller allows multiple offsets (Origins) to be programmed.
Where the #1 found before each axis identifies the coordinate state the controller is in. Each coordinate state can have a unique programmed Origin.
To switch between coordinate states, press MENU & (any number 1-9). The coordinate screen will change and show that set of coordinates.
This feature is useful when creating fixtures or when separating the machine surface into quadrants for specific tasks.
All Origins are in reference to the same HOME and can be alternated as needed.

For example: If using a 48” work area, to perform jobs that are less than 24” in size. The surface can be set up as two 24” areas. Using the same HOME.

In the Menu + 1 area (coordinate state #1), the Origin would be set for the first piece of material.

In the Menu +2 area (coordinate state #2), the Origin would be set for the second piece of material.

The materials can be loaded onto the machine, preferably using a fixture for ease of referencing. The first job can be performed from the #1 state. Then the controller can be switched to the #2 state, and the second piece of material can be machined.

[mt1ss]

Thanks Gerry but not what I'm trying to accomplish.
All I want to do is save multiple tool paths with different tools to a single file. That single program (Toolpaths) would complete a tool stop spindle, pause the program to allow the operator to manually change tools and re-zero the Z axis. Once the operator task are complete the "pause" is stopped and toolpaths continue.

[gerry]

Dec 27, 2018 17:03:21 GMT -5 mt1ss said:

Thanks Gerry but not what I'm trying to accomplish.
All I want to do is save multiple tool paths with different tools to a single file. That single program (Toolpaths) would complete a tool stop spindle, pause the program to allow the operator to manually change tools and re-zero the Z axis. Once the operator task are complete the "pause" is stopped and toolpaths continue.

I know exactly what you want to do. The only problem is that you can't do it with the existing Axiom pp. There is only a hint of it being possible in the manual. The only time it would save is in saving the toolpaths to the USB stick. You only have to invoke the next toolpath after the bit change. That's only a few strokes on the keypad. Not much of a time saver in my view. 

[mt1ss]

Agreed Gerry. It doesn't seem like much and somewhat my point. Seems an easy change to the Axiom PP. A nice very short macro should do it. And yes the hint of the possibility in the manual is all I'm basing this on. Just a little easier to do not a real advantage or time saver.

[Gary Campbell]

In order to support the "manual toolchange" feature two things must be present. 1) The control system must have a method and macro to provide the machine actions during that manual toolchange. These usually consist of moving the head to a front center location, prompt the user to change to a numbered bit and then providing a method to reset the Z height. 2) The post processor must include a "Toolchange" section that includes the macro call mentioned in (1) above.

Adding the toolchange section to the post processor is a 30 second process of copy and paste. There is a postP modification guide included on the help menu of Vectric products. Only the factory could say whether the control system has the proper files and supports such an operation.

[Axiom Tool Group]

The problem is that while the RichAuto controller supports tool-changing....its a universal controller and that tool-changing process is not really supported within the firmware.

If the feature was turned on...the machine would run the first portion of the job and then move to a designated tool-change position. Which has to be setup just like the origin...

Unfortunately what it does not do is shut the spindle OFF....instead a menu is displayed where the user has to turn the spindle OFF. Then the bit can be changed, the Z-0 reset etc.

The spindle has to be turned back on before resuming the job.


Sadly all these steps take longer than just letting it safely stop, and then select the next file to run.


Any file that uses the same tooling can be safely combined, however, as the control does not automatically deactivate the spindle for tool-changes...these feature cannot be supported.

[aluomala]

I'm not sure if my question is in the same ballpark as what the OP wants, but I was thinking about this possibility the other day:

If I were to combine 2 toolpaths (let's say a pocket operation with 1/4" endmill, and then I want to run a profile pass afterwards, using the same tool, naturally), is there any way to insert a "pause" in between the toolpaths (once the pocket operation is complete, it returns to origin, but waits for the operator to hit "OK" or similar)?

The only reason I would like to be able to do this is that sometimes I would like to be right beside the machine (ready to hit pause or cancel; cleaning out toolpath with shop-vac (to get into the nitty gritty areas where the dust collector doesn't get); ready to hold piece in place if tabs break (I've had that happen far too many times).

I am a complete novice to G-code (I learned some basics when I had my ShapeOko2, but haven't needed to edit g-code in quite a while) so I'm not sure if there is a manual means of doing this (and not sure if I would want to anyways, since it seems like a recipe for disaster, if it (the g-code modification) isn't done correctly.

I use Aspire, but have never heard of or seen this capability within Vectric software.

Thanks,
Allan

[Gary Campbell]

"is there any way to insert a "pause" in between the toolpaths?"

Of course there is. Insert a "G4" line in the "New Segment" section of the postP

[Axiom Tool Group]

We are not familiar with a way to do that within the Vectric software.

The recommendation would be to simply save the two files independently and run the separately.

Of course, We are obligated to remind you that it is never recommended to run the machine unattended. Any number of things can occur which can result in fire when CNC machines are left unattended...

[aluomala]

Jan 21, 2019 12:40:55 GMT -5 Gary Campbell said:

"is there any way to insert a "pause" in between the toolpaths?"

Of course there is. Insert a "G4" line in the "New Segment" section of the postP

I hate to sound ungrateful, but....

I indicated that I am not fully conversant with g-code (and even less so with modifying post-processors), so that advice is ok, but I don't know what to do with it. Yes, I could learn how to code PP and g-code, but part of the reason why I bought the Axiom was for the turn-key operation, so I could use the CNC, not learn how to program it.

I get that you wanted to help, but I'm guessing that anybody who knew that would already know that, if you follow. I don't need complete hand-holding, but a code snippet (using the Axiom PP, perhaps) would  come in handy.

Thanks,

Allan

[Gary Campbell]

There is a post processor editing guide under the "Help" menu in VCarve Pro. All that you would ever need to know is in there. One more thing, "G4" will pause the machine until the operator presses enter or cycle start, depending on the controller. The Richauto controller may or may not support the code or the "G4" command.

"Yes, I could learn how to code PP and g-code, but part of the reason why I bought the Axiom was for the turn-key operation, so I could use the CNC, not learn how to program it. "

You already have that.  You are looking for something that is custom, or at least beyond what the MFGR and its vendors provide and support.  The custom stuff is up to you.

[aluomala]

Ok. Thanks Gary. Didn't want to sound too much like an arse, but I have an issue when people post something along the lines "Oh that. That's easy!", and that's the extent of their "help": if you can take the time to type out "That's easy" (in other words, look at how smart I am!) you have the time to copy/paste a link, or give a brief explanation.

I don't mind "rolling up my sleeves and getting under the hood" (I learned more than I care to know about the nuts and bolts (and electrical bits) of my first CNC (SHapeOko2 kit) just to get it to do it's thing.... It was somewhat useful, but I spent more time dealing with the ghosts in the machine than actually carving anything, so decided it was time to play with the big boys)).

I would just think that a simple "Pause" between 2 toolpaths would be feasible. I have learned to NOT use the "output visible toolpaths to one file" on new projects, since have had to re-run one (or more) of the paths (for cleanup, or slightly deeper cut) and having them joined together in one file is not good for that (unless there was a way to run them separately, but that's asking for a bit more than a simple "Pause" between toolpaths.

Anyway, it was one of those "Now why can't my machine do THIS?!?" thoughts more than a burning requirement, so no big whoop.

Thanks again,

Allan

[gerry]

Jan 21, 2019 22:48:01 GMT -5 aluomala said:

Ok. Thanks Gary. Didn't want to sound too much like an arse

It's not working.....

[mt1ss]

I have "modified" The Axiom PP to allow multiple toolpaths within a single output file. The PP now inserts G codes M0, M5, M6 to stop/pause the CNC machine for a manual tool change. Everything worked except "Stop Spindle" As the Axiom Admin pointed out the Rich Auto is somewhat generic. Even though the pendent data implies that a manual tool change, including operator Z axis zeroing in "Advanced Setting tab" is there. However, it also is not supported in firmware... go figure. Bottom line... Live with it... :-(        As  for me I plan to dump the RichAuto controller.  A pricey undertaking but  I hate this pendent platform.

My other thread:

axiomprecision.proboards.com/thread/883/axiom-ar8-pro-b18-controller

[cargill]

I’m just catching this thread and am freaking out a little...
I just took delivery of the AR8Pro+ and am planning to use RhinoCAM for all of my toolpaths, as that’s what I’ve used for the past few years on another machine.
I’m assuming/hoping that all of these “problems” with multiple tools in a single post are only related Vcarve/Aspire.
This conversation is causing me to question my change to the Axiom machine, if the problem is with ithe machine / controller as opposed to Vectric.
#fingerscrossed

[mt1ss]

Cargill... Note the Axiom Admin comments above. This is a firmware issue in the RichAuto controller Which there is no plans nor effort to change....

[johnb]

Does the same limitation hold true for the HUST controller on the Elite machines?

[mt1ss]

Johnb it appears the Elite doesn't support multiple tools in a single file as well...

[grg]

In my opinion, it's really not that big of a deal. Three button presses vs. 1 and gives me a moment to think about what I'm doing after the tool change.

[nikigio]

post processor tool change
I have an axiom 8 pro and using a mach post processor allows me to save a single g code with multiple tools.

[nikigio]

Questo in aspire

I don't understand why there isn't the original AXIOM.....mystery...but disappointment.

Mach2_3_ATC_Arcs_mm.pp

[micknm]

Oct 2, 2023 4:24:59 GMT -5 nikigio said:

Questo in aspire

I don't understand why there isn't the original AXIOM.....mystery...but disappointment.

Mach2_3_ATC_Arcs_mm.pp

Does your AR8 have the Richauto controller, or the UCCNC controller? Many non-US Axioms use the UCCNC controller.