Using laser on 4th axis.

[tundarum]

Is it impossible to use the laser attachment on the 4th axis since you would have to use the 4th axis pp for indexing and wouldn't be able to use the laser pp?  I'm wondering if I could use the laser tool I created and use the 4th axis pp.  I don't think that will work, but I'll try it anyway.  It seems I would need a new pp that combines both the 4th axis pp with the laser pp.

[tundarum]

Update:  Spoke with Chad and a 4th axis + laser pp combined is on their list.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[Deleted]

It isn't hard to combine the laser and rotary post-processors. I always modify manufacture post-processors to add features to them such as improved documentation to help prevent errors when machining. I also make ones that are rotated so that I can do feed through in the X direction instead of the Y direction by swapping the relationship between the design orientation and the machine coordinate systems. I don't have the laser or rotary post-processors for any Axiom machine to do the conversion though. I do have the "Axiom HHC CNC" and "Axiom Elite NTC" post-processors.

[aluomala]

Oct 9, 2018 10:12:07 GMT -5 tundarum said:

Update:  Spoke with Chad and a 4th axis + laser pp combined is on their list.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Any word back on this? I just thought of combining the 2 add-ons (laser and rotary) tonight, and the possibilities for the combined use seem to be endless.... If it can be accomplished.

I am looking at adding some equipment to my stable (I have the AR4Pro+), so I am looking at adding the AR8Pro+ with the rotary axis, and a stand-alone laser is starting to look good. The ability to use the rotary axis AND a laser (not neccesarily the 4.2W JTech, since that seems pretty weak (I have the 3W laser for my NWA Pirahna, and suffice it to say, I should have just burned the $1000 it cost, since it is borderline useless)) is pretty appealing. Endurance lasers (link) has some more powerful (8.5W, 10W and 20W (x2 10W lasers focused to same point) options, albeit unproven (that I have seen). At the price point they have (~$1100USD for 20W) it is pretty tempting. Probably same level of support as one can expect at this price point, so.....

Axiom HAS to step up their documentation and communication game: frankly, it sucks. Remember the hubbub around the announcements from the big woodworking show this summer? No?!? Neither does anybody else. Air cleaner? Yawn. New entry level CNC machine? Pre-order now, shipping mid January... Of what year? Product manual? "Coming soon". How about documentation for the rotary axis? Anyone? Here's a link to the forum post link. As you can see, there is a plethora of information out there. Maybe I'm an outlier, but when I have an issue, I do a lot of Google-fu, look through forums, and as a LAST resort I contact customer service. The day I go through 15 levels of voice-mail hell to get an answer to something I SHOULD be able to get off the internet is the day that I throw said item into the garbage (children included).

Sorry for the the rant/tirade, but I have spent the last 2 or 3 hours researching other alternatives, and yes, some are more expensive. Much more expensive. And they might suck, once the rubber meets the road. But after wasting money with NWA (as mentioned above) and reading about issues fellow Axiom owners have had (4th axis, etc), plus some of my own issues (Z-axis coupler disintegrating within a few weeks/months of owning my machine), my patience has worn thin, considering that the competition seems to have a lot of these issues dealt with: manuals, online support, videos, etc. As the internet meme reads: "Change my mind".

Allan

[Deleted]

Combining the two post processors is trivial and should only take a few minutes with a tool like Beyond Compare. Just go with the separate laser and a rotary attachment for it. When you start at 40 watts and almost no moving mass the speed is orders of magnitude better, as well as the quality of results.

[Axiom Tool Group]

We admit that there should not be much difficulty combining the post processors, however, as we began testing for this application....the engineering team has developed some safety concerns that have delayed this post from being available.

In order to operate the laser with the rotary kit...it must be elevated far above the surface, which will expose the user and others to the laser, reflection and scatter. Which increases risk for injury and ultimately we need to be sure of the safety and liabilities before providing that information.

It will be available once we can be certain of the liability waiver coverage.

[zmuda01]

Jan 21, 2019 12:07:08 GMT -5 Axiom Tool Group said:

We admit that there should not be much difficulty combining the post processors, however, as we began testing for this application....the engineering team has developed some safety concerns that have delayed this post from being available.

In order to operate the laser with the rotary kit...it must be elevated far above the surface, which will expose the user and others to the laser, reflection and scatter. Which increases risk for injury and ultimately we need to be sure of the safety and liabilities before providing that information.

It will be available once we can be certain of the liability waiver coverage.


Has there been a resolution to this?  I would like to use my laser to engrave around a cylinder.  If this is already a possibility can someone direct me to where I can read how please?

Thanks,
JZ

[aluomala]

JZ, I have been waiting (somewhat patiently) for this to happen, but I have learned a few things:

1) companies either over-promise and under-deliver (**cough** Endurance Laser **cough**) or conversely, they hint it's possible (particularly since they sell, or endorse, the items involved (a laser add-on and 4th axis for example), but it just takes time, but nothing ever comes of it (do I have to say what company I'm thinking of here?).

2) Users on forums will say "It's easy! I did it!" but don't offer anything beyond that. No links to sources, examples, offers of help to accomplish this "easy" task. These type of people probably got beat up a lot in school I suspect.

3) All-in-one machines are never all they are cracked up to be. Remember TVs with built-in VCRs? Almost all of the bolt-on lasers I have seen (under $2000) are of questionable quality (they all seem to use 3D printed boxes and the cheapest wiring/connections that they can source). I bought an Endurance laser and it was a waste of money. The support they provide involves sending you YouTube links, and all the components seem to look different (different housings, switches, settings, etc) so a dummy like me with little electronics knowledge gets a headache just thinking about what I have to do (they are advertised as "Plug and Play!". Yeah, not so much.

I wanted to be able exactly what you mention (use rotary axis and laser in conjunction with each other) as well as do hybrid carving and laser without removing the item from the work area, but I can see that is more wishful thinking than reality, since the amount of time it takes to switch over from one to the other (I have a quick-release mount (for laser) that a fellow generously provided the files for so I could 3D print it, but you have to remove the stock dust shoe to mount it, and due to it being 3D printed, it isn't particularly rigid (ie it bounces around a little when the gantry moves quickly, which is neccesary with a laser).

I originally priced out a N American (vs Chinese based) laser (Epilog or Trotec) and with the bells and whistles (rotary axis, pass through for long/large items, warranty, extra tube/lenses, etc) that I was looking for it came in at $30,000. That's more than all the equipment in my shop (3 CNC routers, table saw, band saw, etc). That's what got me looking at the bolt-on models available, and now I'm wishing I had taken a middle ground approach and bought a reputable Chinese model that would allow for rotary work and pass-through (that was what I was looking at with the N American models as well). I have heard that those can be had for around $3000, which is pretty decent in my books, and would free up one of my machines for dedicated CNC router work (my plan is to set up my rotary axis on my AR4 and use my AR8 for day to day work, and also use the AR4 for lower impact work (diamond drag bit, acrylic engraving, drag knife, etc).

I have basically given up waiting for Axiom to deliver on the vague promise(s) of the past, but I am going to try to slog it out on my own (I'm too stubborn for my own good), and I plan on getting both my rotary axis (mine seems to be a lemon (bought it 2 years ago, and used it once.... it seems to turn/slip VERY easily when the spindle is carving (broken/weak stepper motors?) and laser working, hopefully together, but I will be somewhat happy to get it so that each works, independently of another. If I ever get the 2 (rotary and laser) working together (IT'S EASY! ) I'll be sure to share the knowledge with the members here, and not hoard it away like the petty people I mentioned above.

Allan

[Axiom Tool Group]

Dec 28, 2020 18:03:32 GMT -5 zmuda01 said:

Jan 21, 2019 12:07:08 GMT -5 Axiom Tool Group said:

We admit that there should not be much difficulty combining the post processors, however, as we began testing for this application....the engineering team has developed some safety concerns that have delayed this post from being available.

In order to operate the laser with the rotary kit...it must be elevated far above the surface, which will expose the user and others to the laser, reflection and scatter. Which increases risk for injury and ultimately we need to be sure of the safety and liabilities before providing that information.

It will be available once we can be certain of the liability waiver coverage.


Has there been a resolution to this?  I would like to use my laser to engrave around a cylinder.  If this is already a possibility can someone direct me to where I can read how please?

Thanks,
JZ

A 4th-Axis laser post is available but thus far has only been tested by a small number of users.

We generally request that we have a conversation with each user about the application to discuss any risk factors that should be considered before providing the post...as reflection and visible laser exposure does create a number of concerns.


If you'd like to give us a call and speak with Chad, we would be happy to discuss any concerns and provide the post.

*Post developed to work with the RichAuto DSP controller and available JTech Laser accessory.

[zmuda01]

I figured out a solution last night while reading  Vectrics post processor notes and comparing the different Axiom posts.  I've been in the CNC business for decades both as a machinist and programmer so I'm comfortable in the CAM and post processor world.  That being said,  I will absolutely give Chad a call to make sure I have not overlooked any of the safety concerns as being blinded is not my goal.

Thanks,

JZ