grg
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by grg on Apr 26, 2018 7:02:40 GMT -5
I've found some stuff in my coolant lines. Started to remove one of the lines at the spindle and the tubing twists. Is there a better way or method of doing it? I don't want to damage the tubing. Other than distilled water and antifreeze has anyone used something else to flush the system? Thanks. I only had an issue with twisting when I was installing the new lines. When I removed the old ones I just held the tubing with one hand and used a wrench on the fitting and I was able to prevent it from turning. But the new lines where much tighter in the fittings and I could not keep them from turning but I had not connected the other ends so it was not much of an issue. As far as flushing the system they recommend the distilled water to flush out the old and refill with the RV antifreeze. And since my unit is new and well within warranty I wont be doing anything else. New tubing is not expensive. I think I paid something like $6 for enough tubing to replumb my AR8Pro from an Ace Hardware store. Take an old piece to get the size right (I didn't - had to buy it twice ;-). As far as removing used tubing (that you don't plan to reuse), a pair of needle nose pliers squeezing the tubing right above the fitting so you just barely pinch the top of the fitting and squeeze the tubing off, works pretty well. The tubing will not be reusable after this process, though. Caution, however, do not do this on the little radiator - those barbed entry/exit fittings are aluminum and will crush. I recommend slitting the tubing with a razor blade along the fitting to get it off the radiator to avoid damage. On install, if the tubing is proving too much to get in place, just a little heat from a heat gun or a propane torch (held faaaar away) to warm the tubing up makes it slip on pretty easy. It really doesn't take much heat at all - just warm up the tubing.
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Post by Axiom Tool Group on Apr 26, 2018 10:20:31 GMT -5
After having some concern about algae growth in the coolant, we have reached out to the spindle, cooling system manufacturers as well as our engineering team.
There hasn't been any instances of "algae" growth that anyone is aware of. However, there is a potential for film and color change in the coolant due to how the coolant reacts to the copper tubing/lining inside the spindle.
And anytime that warm fluid is present, there is a chance for bacterial growth which would present much like algae.
Its just recommended, to flush and refill the system every 4-6 months. *Which have been the recommendations all along* This will help prevent any film from clogging up the system and ensure that the coolant remains fresh and able to work efficiently.
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Post by savannahdan on Apr 26, 2018 13:20:21 GMT -5
I was going to ask what that procedure is since my manual doesn't include it. But, I went to your website and downloaded the current manual for my model and the procedure is in on pages 35-36.
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grg
Junior Member
Posts: 140
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Post by grg on May 8, 2018 8:25:15 GMT -5
That's good info and it probably is some sort of bacterial whaty-not or a breakdown of the coolant. Is there any concern about going to a different type of antifreeze? - an automotive type, perhaps? Truth be told, when I flushed and refilled mine, I used some fresh GM Dex-cool antifreeze that I had leftover from doing some maintenance on my truck. I figured if it was good enough for the steel/aluminum/brass in my engine and cooling system while at a much wider temperature range - there that it would probably be fine here.
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309cnc
Junior Member
Posts: 124
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Post by 309cnc on May 8, 2018 8:34:26 GMT -5
savannahdan : Would you mind sharing the link you used to download a manual? Not finding it...
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Post by uzumati on May 9, 2018 6:25:30 GMT -5
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Post by savannahdan on May 9, 2018 12:45:51 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't see the question until now. Glad you handled it uzumati. I also downloaded the Powermatic manual from their website. Not all of the information in those different manuals apply to my machine but they do cover more than the original manual I got with it.
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Post by parkin79 on Apr 2, 2019 20:18:48 GMT -5
Will this work for the coolant. Just wanted to check.
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Post by gerry on Apr 2, 2019 20:32:19 GMT -5
yes...
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johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
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Post by johnb on Apr 2, 2019 22:39:13 GMT -5
Here's what Axiom wrote to me in another thread about the coolant...
"The factory uses a Blue variety of the recommended Propylene Glycol antifreeze...however, here in the US all similar antifreeze products vary in color by manufacturer. Typically a shade of Red to pink.
As long as it's an RV/Marine grade propylene glycol it would be correct.
Automotive ethylene glycol is harmful to the seals in the pumps and can cause a failure very quickly."
As for cleaning out the lines, that's not a difficult task. My sailboat has a lot of the same kind of tubing for fresh water lines (in a bigger diameter). The trick with those is to separate them at any "hard turns" (like 90 degrees), and run a piece of insulated multi strand electrical wire through one end and out the other (stiff enough to "push"), tie a tampon string on it and pull it through. You'd have to make your own "tampon" out of rags, but the principle would be the same...it swabs it out nicely.
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Post by parkin79 on Apr 2, 2019 22:52:27 GMT -5
Sorry if this is a silly question. while I was trying to drain and clean out my reservoir and all the tubing I could not get it to suck up any of the distilled water. no matter what I try different combinations and I just cannot get it to suck up the distilled water it shot everything else out of the system and the only way to get it to work was to refill the actual reservoir. It's late and I'm tired so I will try again tomorrow. Thanks for any feedback you guys give me.
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johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
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Post by johnb on Apr 3, 2019 5:55:52 GMT -5
The path of least resistance here is the fluid in the reservoir. Your "supply water" needs to be coming from a point higher than the reservoir. If you start a siphon from your (elevated) open bucket, it should refill the reservoir by back flowing through the (not running) pump, provided the plug has been removed. If you then replace the plug in the reservoir top (before it overflows), it should continue to draw from your open bucket once the pump is turned back on. This is characteristic of a "non-self-priming" pump (which is why the reservoir exists in the first place). Alternatively, refill the reservoir to the top, let it flow out the open line from the pump until air is purged, stick the line in the supply water and then quickly elevate the bucket while replacing the plug in the top of the reservoir and turn it on. You might be able to manage this if you plug the (filled) line with your finger after the air is purged and get the cap back on with the other hand before releasing your finger and dropping the filled line into the elevated bucket.
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Post by parkin79 on Apr 3, 2019 8:25:27 GMT -5
Ty John. That makes sense.
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Post by parkin79 on Apr 3, 2019 11:36:34 GMT -5
i haven't even had my machine a year and i have growth and other floating things in my pump and tubes (see image above). it was like this when i first got it, but i didn't think anything of it at the time. so i am going to replace my tubes.
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johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
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Post by johnb on Apr 3, 2019 14:31:00 GMT -5
****EDITED POST*** My original link to Pentofrost was erroneous. I have since discovered that it is ethylene glycol based. Current machines are shipped with a blue coolant. Consider this: There are only two things in your (closed) coolant system that are likely to corrode (since the radiator is plastic along with (presumably) any pump parts that come in contact with fluids). One of these is the brass barbed fittings and the other is your spindle. The flow of liquid through the system creates an electrical current conducive to galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals. The brass is more cathodic than the aluminum alloy in the spindle. This means that the spindle becomes the "sacrificial anode" (which "plates onto" the brass). It stands to reason that you'd want to use a coolant designed to protect the alloy. You can witness this (almost) in real time action by observing the effect of putting un-anodized aluminum in a dishwasher...the darkening and streaks are actually indicative of the galvanic corrosion that is taking place...with the aluminum cookie sheet "losing out" to the stainless steel flatware or the tub of the dishwasher itself. Here's a source for 95% corrosion inhibited propylene glycol. This stuff is not "food grade" (that costs a little more and only comes in gallon or larger sizes) You don't need food grade. All of the RV/Marine freshwater antifreezes are going to be free of ethylene glycol. The propylene glycol is actually used in some food products (and Fireball Whiskey). This is a link to the 16 oz size. Undiluted it has a boiling point of over 300 degrees (F), so you could cut it with distilled water to extend. Propylene glycol coolants should be changed out and the system flushed when they start to discolor (turn brown). That is the result of iron oxidization and/or bacteria. www.chemworld.com/Inhibited-Propylene-Glycol-p/IPG-16z.htm?keyword_session_id=vt~adwords|kt~|mt~|ta~57098673493&_vsrefdom=wordstream&gclid=Cj0KCQjws5HlBRDIARIsAOomqA2xyyDbIQnRh6XdZZ-dX8xPZLx1n_VkWjhxmdmwHJagOmFw_ujGhp4aAgFZEALw_wcB
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Post by gerry on Apr 3, 2019 15:10:12 GMT -5
Current machines are shipped with a blue coolant. Pentofrost Blue (or the OEM equivalent) is what goes in almost all Asian cars. It's formulated with anti-corrosives specifically designed for (aluminum) alloy engine parts. Consider this: There are only two things in your (closed) coolant system that are likely to corrode (since the radiator is plastic along with (presumably) any pump parts that come in contact with fluids). One of these is the brass barbed fittings and the other is your spindle. The flow of liquid through the system creates an electrical current conducive to galvanic corrosion between two dissimilar metals. The brass is more cathodic than the aluminum alloy in the spindle. This means that the spindle becomes the "sacrificial anode" (which "plates onto" the brass). It stands to reason that you'd want to use a coolant designed to protect the alloy. You can witness this (almost) in real time action by observing the effect of putting un-anodized aluminum in a dishwasher...the darkening and streaks are actually indicative of the galvanic corrosion that is taking place...with the aluminum cookie sheet "losing out" to the stainless steel flatware or the tub of the dishwasher itself. That is auto antifreeze. It is not even close to what is recommended, which is RV/Marine antifreeze. Axiom has specifically NOT recommended auto antifreeze.
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johnb
Full Member
New owner @ March 2019, AR16 Elite, Aspire, 4th Axis & Laser
Posts: 326
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Post by johnb on Apr 3, 2019 18:03:37 GMT -5
Gerry - I've edited my original post, but not for the reason you gave. There are auto antifreezes that are propylene glycol based and, per Axiom these are fine. It's sometimes hard to determine what's in what, but you're safe with the RV/Marine stuff because it's made for freshwater systems and would NEVER contain ethylene glycol (which is poisonous to man and beast). My error was in identifying Pentofrost as being ok...I got erroneous information and later discovered that it is ethylene glycol based and NOT SUITABLE FOR AXIOM USE.
Please edit your post to eliminate the link that you quoted from my original post so that nobody clicks & buys it in error.
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mt1ss
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by mt1ss on Apr 26, 2019 13:25:29 GMT -5
I flushed my coolant and went with Evans waterless. The stuff doesn't support life forms (Algae)
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Post by joeblow on Apr 26, 2019 21:18:20 GMT -5
I flushed my coolant and went with Evans waterless. The stuff doesn't support life forms (Algae)
The MSDS for this product states that, by weight, 74-90% is Ethylene Glycol. NOT RECOMMENDED to use! link
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