First run / Fly cut issues and spoiler board position issues

[jacqdesign]

NOTE: I have sent this through email to the Axiom team also, but wanted to post on there in case someone had encountered similar issues, or have solutions can help us before the support team gets back to us.

We purchased the Axiom AR16 Elite in early 2018 and due to life events and moving, we finally got it setup at our new place and ready to give it its first run.

Being the total CNC newbies and hobbyists that we are, we are a little overwhelmed with lack of step by step instruction on loading and working on a first file kind of instruction anywhere for the Axiom machines (like a step to step for “Hello World” scenario in programming if you know what I mean). We are located in Arizona so trying to take time off and schedule to fly to Ohio for training is a little bit harder to achieve. So any help you can provide remotely, will be greatly appreciated.

We received a fly cut .CNC file from Chad last summer to run, but never got to it then. Today, we followed the instructions on the manual to perform the HOME Operation, with the puck for Z-axis and then Setting Work Origin using the puck, and then load and run the file by following the Copy Files to Internal Memory steps.

The first couple of time we tried, the gantry runs at along the work area like it was designed to, but never lowered the bit to touch and run the surface of the spoiler board.

Then we restarted the machine, and tried it again. HOME, set Z-axis with puck. The gantry starts to move to the right from HOME, and then stops. The screen shows Error 20, Z Soft OT.

After reading a few postings on the forum, we checked and are starting to realign the metal tabs for the X, Y, Z sensors. They are off for sure, one is also slightly bent/crooked. During the inspection of this, we also noticed the spoiler board seems to be mounted a bit forward on the table. When the bit comes down to HOME, there is quite a bit of spoiler board in front of it and then when we jog the bit to the back, there is not enough spoiler board under the bit, meaning the bit is hanging mid air with no spoiler board underneath it. The measurement of the front edge of the spoiler board is 80mm from the very front edge of the table, where the metal cover is mounted. If that is incorrect, can you send us the right distance so we can adjust the boards? After some measuring and such, we are guessing the boards need to move back 20mm to make the distance 100mm.

Hopefully we can do the fly cut properly once we figure out the rest of the issues. The second photo shows the pencil mark the HOME position of the bit. Third photo shows the right front side of the spoiler board and where the bit landed after moving it here from HOME.

[jacqdesign]

Little update:

After we re-aligned all the sensor metal tabs and did the HOME again. We were able to run the machine using the flycut .CNC file. But the bit only come down about the depth of the puck, roughly 20 mm, and no more. So it feels like we are missing a whole measurement of the height of the gantry, so the bit does not drop down far enough to reach the spoilboard.

Is there some other steps we need to take to input Z-0 for the bit to come down more other then using the puck?

[jacqdesign]

More update: 

We decided to manually jog the bit down to set Z-0. That seem to do the trick of bringing the bit down to the spoil board to run the fly cut.

Read more: axiomprecision.proboards.com/thread/1168/first-issues-spoiler-board-position?page=1#ixzz699ZZ6XLS










Now, we also noticed a pattern showing up in the surface that is cut. I think I read somewhere in the forum others experienced similar issue, but I will have to try and hunt it down. Photos for reference.

[johnb]

Okay...a couple of things here from another Elite AR-16 owner.
You won't need a new flycut program, but you do need to adjust your limit switches and the spoilboard position
First off, understand that the limit switches for the minimum X and minimum Y are what everything keys off of here. The ones on the other end of the Y axis and the "right side of the table" (looking up the length of the table with the gantry perpendicular in front of you) are not "important"...they just serve as an "emergency stop" to keep from crashing the spindle against the "right" end of the gantry or something beyond the upper limit of Y.

Move your minimum X limit switch so that the edge of the flycutting bit is barely over the edge of the leftmost spoilboard. Tighten the limit switch. You should then be able to jog the X axis over to the right far enough to have the bit reach the right edge of the rightmost spoilboard (and without seeing a "Soft error"...more on that later).

Since you've already attempted the flycutting, you can see that you need more distance "get to" the bottom edge of the spoilboards (at the minimum Y). Jog the machine down to minimum-Y, lower the bit almost to the spoilboard top and then and note how much distance there is from the edge of the bit to the end of the table. That length will be where you need to place your spoilboard end. Loosen the screws through the spoilboards (only enough that you can move them...you don't want to lose a nut off the end of any of the screws). Carefully measure your new distance and set spoilboard #1. Repeat this for the spoilboard #(last). Place a metal rule, level or other "good" straightedge firmly against the two spoilboards that you've anchored in place and screw each one down.

As far as the machine "range" is concerned, what you get is X-0 plus 1210 mm and Y-0 plus 1210 mm. It's the controller that limits this travel, not the mechanical limit switches. Re-set your "Home" to have X-0,Y-0 in the proper place.

It's not uncommon to be cutting more off the top of the spoilboard on one side than it is on the other the first time you run the program. With mine, I was "cutting air" on the "last" spoilboard at maximum X. If this is the case, that's where you want to place your touchoff puck when setting Z.

If you're not reaching "either end" of the spoilboard (or the outside edges on both limits of X), then you need a bigger flycutter. What bit are you using up there? It looks like to me that you didn't allow the program to run completely, since there is a pass that is made perpendicular to the length of the spoilboards to "clean up" the scallops left from the longitudinal paths.

if the "pattern" doesn't disappear when you've run this all again (from the appropriate Z height), then your bit either "bent", not seated correctly, or the spindle needs to be trammed (that's a whole other process).

[jacqdesign]

Dec 25, 2019 16:35:05 GMT -5 johnb said:

If you're not reaching "either end" of the spoilboard (or the outside edges on both limits of X), then you need a bigger flycutter. What bit are you using up there? It looks like to me that you didn't allow the program to run completely, since there is a pass that is made perpendicular to the length of the spoilboards to "clean up" the scallops left from the longitudinal paths.

if the "pattern" doesn't disappear when you've run this all again (from the appropriate Z height), then your bit either "bent", not seated correctly, or the spindle needs to be trammed (that's a whole other process).

Thank you John! We did almost exactly what you have described to fix the limits, that fixed the position of the bit.

The bit we are using is the 1.25” Mortising bit.

We took the photos just shortly after running the fly cut, because we thought there was too much gap of material not being cut.

We lowered the bit a little bit more when setting Z-0 and the pattern is still there, maybe not as much. We will probably try to run other test pattern to see if it does the same thing.

Thanks for your reply! It is nice to know there are other AR16 Elite owners out there that could help us!

Have a wonderful holiday!

[jacqdesign]

Dec 25, 2019 16:35:05 GMT -5 johnb said:

If the "pattern" doesn't disappear when you've run this all again (from the appropriate Z height), then your bit either "bent", not seated correctly, or the spindle needs to be trammed (that's a whole other process).

After closer inspection, we believe there is a slight forward tilt in the spindle head on our machine. So now, we are on the hunt for instructions on tramming the spindle head.

I can’t tell you how excited we are getting closer to run a test project and start making some stuff!!!

[savannahdan]

Just noticed this posting and feel for you. It has to be frustrating to make such a purchase and first have to wait to use it. My Axiom is my second cnc and I had to wait several months in order to get my shop renovated and wired correctly. I purchased my Axiom from a dealer and he used it for demonstrations and had the thing tuned in. I notice your mortising bit is similar to the one that I've used. I will be picking up one that uses carbide inserts. Also, consider replacing your collet chuck with one from Precise Bits located in Colorado. I had a cutting issue on a project and checked the nut to find it was messed up inside the threads. The new one from Precise Bits works like a charm. They also sell an excellent line of bits and collets.
Keep reading this forum for important information and tips. Good luck and welcome to the club.

[johnb]

Many new users have not gone about installing the bit properly. This can lead to a variety of issues.

Before digging too deeply into tramming the spindle, make sure you're inserting the bit correctly:
1) Remove nut & collet
2) Pop the collet out of the nut
3) Examine the collet for any burrs (while you're at it, clean any dust out of the collet, paying particular attention to the slots)
4) Pop the collet into the nut and make sure that it appears to seat correctly
5) Screw the nut (with inserted collet) a little way onto the threaded spindle shaft (but not far enough to touch the shaft with the collet end)
6) Insert the bit into the collet and hold it in place while finger tightening the nut onto the shaft snug enough that the bit doesn't drop out when you let go of it.
7) Finish tightening with the wrenches

When inserting the bit, don't push it in so far that the collet engages any part of the "flared" part of the bit. It should seat on (only) the finely machined portion of the shaft.

[jacqdesign]

Thank you so much savannahdan for your tips! We will look into the chuck and bits!

[jacqdesign]

Thank you johnb! I will make sure we follow the steps on the bits you suggested.

[jacqdesign]

We have the machine up and running and did a few simple design projects and the machine is cutting beautifully. Thank you all for responding and giving pointers!

[jacqdesign]

Just wanted to give a final update. We are able to get the machine up and running and did a couple of simple projects. Here's one we did over the weekend. A fun coat hanger for our entry way. I use Adobe Illustrator to make the vector designs, bring into V-Carve to create tool paths. Did a test mockup using MDF and built the final in plywood. 

We have abandoned the puck for setting Z-0, manually jog the Z seems to work well so far. We may have to come back and see if the puck is faulty or if we were doing it wrong somehow before.

[Mezalick]

Jacqdesign,
Nice looking project....looks like fun.
I'm glad you figured out a work around for the puck issue.
Going "Old School" is how I call it.

Michael

[savannahdan]

Agree with Michael, that's a really nice project.

[redwood]

That looks really cool, but how do you hang coats on it.

[justin]

I had the same issues with my Elite 16 when I got it. The Axiom support team helped but reading the posts from other members was a great help. Re-adjusted the spoil boards, tossed to useless puck in the bottom drawer and went to work on projects. Glad everything worked out and nice work on the coat rack.

[jacqdesign]

Dec 31, 2019 12:36:48 GMT -5 redwood said:

That looks really cool, but how do you hang coats on it.

Thank you~

Here's how we use it. The upward peaks of the lines become a place to hang the coat or hat.

[Bob]

I was wondering about that too. Nice idea! And very well done.
Bob